Abe Ross

Bez wrote:

    >I was wondering if anyone reading these boards lives or travels to
    >Panama? I've never been out of the USA but I'm used to living in a warm
    >climate and I'm a pretty easy going person. I don't plan on moving
    >right away and I'm looking at various activities that will improve my
    >options if I do move to Central America.

Spent a month there last year and didn't have enough time to do all of
the things we wanted to do. We'll be going back. It's a great
country to visit and, I suspect, to live in. We spoke to a number of
ex-pats there who were very satisfied. Some of them had originally
moved to Costa Rica and didn't like it so they migrated further south.

    >1. Visit the area at least once
    >2. Research, research, research
    >3. Take items that will assist in living there, such as a generator and
    > tools, fishing equipment.
    >4. Sell most everything I own in the States before moving.

You don't really need those things in Panama. Panama city is the most
"North American" city I have been in in Central and South America. It
has 7/24 supermarkets, pharmacies, US clothing stores, Kentucy Fried
Chicken, etc. When you get out of Panama City there are still the
amenities you would find in the US or Canada, , e.g., electricity,
telephones, running water, etc. The water is drinkable all over the
country. Good medical care.

And another thing, they are below the hurricane belt.

    >The hardest thing I've yet to find answers to are whether I can take my
    >dogs with me to Panama or Belize. Anyone know the answer on that?
    >Also, do I need to buy a boat in the states (small town day boat) before
    >moving to one of the islands?

Can't help with the dog and boat.



Abe Ross
[email protected]
Psychology Dept.
Memorial University
St. John's,
Newfoundland
Canada

Becca

    > We'll be going back. It's a great
    > country to visit and, I suspect, to live in.

On my short visit to Panama, I noticed burglar bars on all of the
windows and on the balconies, even the air conditioners were barred
down. I'm not sure I would feel safe, living in an area where
everything has to be nailed down, to keep people from stealing it.

I'm going back to Panama in 3 weeks, maybe I will see a difference.

Becca

Island Gal

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:46:35 -0600, Becca wrote:

    >. I'm not sure I would feel safe, living in an area where
    >everything has to be nailed down, to keep people from stealing it.

Like in a modern USA department store?

Barry

"> Check out this website: www.escapeartist.com It should help you
    > with you decision.
    > One thing about Panama: if you start a business or buy land to
    > produce a product there, both of which will employ the locals and
    > contribute to the economy, you may be granted Panamamian citizenship
    > as a reward.
Regarding web sites like EscapeArtist.Com

Ho Hum, here we go again.

Since you are a US citizen, don't even think about leaving the US for the
purpose of avoiding US taxation. The US law is very specific (and
draconian, I might add) regarding renounciation of citizenship.

To summarize, even if you renounce your citizenship, you will still be
liable for taxation in the US on your world-wide income. If you renounce,
you will not be allowed back into the US. These are the laws.

If you don't renounce, you can still get back into the US, and you will
still be liable for US taxation, subject to offsets for foreign taxes paid.

In short, keep your citizenship and pay your taxes and you'll be all right.
there are a lot of web sites that tell you that you can escape US taxation,
but they'll get you in a lot of trouble.

Barry

Stefan Patric

On Saturday 16 November 2002 16:52, barry wrote:

    >
    > "> Check out this website: www.escapeartist.com It should help you
    >> with you decision.
    >> One thing about Panama: if you start a business or buy land to
    >> produce a product there, both of which will employ the locals and
    >> contribute to the economy, you may be granted Panamamian
    >> citizenship as a reward.
    > Regarding web sites like EscapeArtist.Com
    >
    > Ho Hum, here we go again.
    >
    > Since you are a US citizen, don't even think about leaving the US
    > for the
    > purpose of avoiding US taxation. The US law is very specific (and
    > draconian, I might add) regarding renounciation of citizenship.
    >
    > To summarize, even if you renounce your citizenship, you will still
    > be
    > liable for taxation in the US on your world-wide income. If you
    > renounce,
    > you will not be allowed back into the US. These are the laws.
    >
    > If you don't renounce, you can still get back into the US, and you
    > will still be liable for US taxation, subject to offsets for foreign
    > taxes paid.
    >
    > In short, keep your citizenship and pay your taxes and you'll be all
    > right. there are a lot of web sites that tell you that you can
    > escape US taxation, but they'll get you in a lot of trouble.

You would have dual citizenship -- Panama and your home country, if I
understood the reference correctly, and would be subject to the tax
laws of both, of course.


--
Stefan Patric
[email protected]

Barry

    > You would have dual citizenship -- Panama and your home country, if I
    > understood the reference correctly, and would be subject to the tax
    > laws of both, of course.

Dual citizenship may do something for a US citizen in the rest of the world,
but it has no standing in the US. Most of the dual citizenship programs in
Latin America are based on economics, such as Belize's, where you bought
your "Belizean citizenship" by paying USD50,000. The benefits for a US
citizen were exactly zero -- just ask the Dart family. There are people
hawking second passports as insurance against terrorists. The theory being,
I guess, that when the bad guys collect passports after hijacking the plane,
you give them your Ruritanian passport and they leave you alone. Of course,
if they speak to you in Ruritanian, you're in a world of hurt. Some of
these salesmen actually have for sale passports of countries or territories
that no longer exist!

The mistake people make is that they think they can escape US taxation by
having one of these citizenships. The sites devoted to tax-avoidance and
"leaving the US" frequently get very close to or into illegal activities.

In fact, there are some reasonable observers who believe that having a
second passport in the country you live in is a mistake, since it can
deprive you of the aid and assistance of the US government, since you are a
"citizen" of the host country. I don't know about this, but it's something
to consider, eh. The rules of losing one's US citizenship are pretty
straightforward, and what can happen to you should you lose your US
citizenship so final and draconian, that one should be very careful in this
area. I make no claim to be an expert in this area, but I have studied it
pretty closely for about 20 years, and worked in a related business area. I
have learned to go very carefully and slowly in these matters and to avoid
all, and I mean all, the people in the off-shore and expat "industry".

Barry

Ken Tough

barry wrote:

    >In fact, there are some reasonable observers who believe that having a
    >second passport in the country you live in is a mistake, since it can
    >deprive you of the aid and assistance of the US government, since you are a
    >"citizen" of the host country. I don't know about this, but it's something
    >to consider, eh.

Often foreign residents expect too much of their home government.
Few would renounce their US citizenship, and so if you still hold
it, they would still give you the services they normally would:
basically giving information, and evacuating in times of extreme
danger. If you run into any kind of legal trouble, all they need
do is ensure you get access to the representation you're allowed,
and try and let your family contact you.

One should be more careful about the requirements of the new
citizenship.. Sometimes you are letting yourself (and perhaps
some of your descendents) in for mandatory military service etc.

As you say, it is something to examine very carefully but there
are often good reasons for getting dual citizenship including:
improved access to services in your new country [opens many doors
that were bound with red tape], permission to work or become a
licensed professional, benefits to regional citizens (e.g. cheaper
hotel rates for caricom nationals), faster passage through channels
at the passport desk, at the vehicle licensing bureau, at the
mortgage desk etc.

--
Ken Tough
R.S.Africa

Michael

Hi. I've been thinking about where to "retire" in the caribbean/latin
america for years. The thing that put me offof Costa Rica was the
burglar bars on everything. I was told that "they" would even pull the
wires and switches out of the walls of a house. You pretty much have
to hire someone to watch your house if you leave..which makes the
whole thing unfeasible, unless you have mucha plata. I heard that
Panama was somewhat better in this regard. Where in Panama were you? I
was thinking of checking out the Bocas area as well as the Pacific
side... Looking ecovillage type developments to build a house in where
people can watch each other's houses.

Thanks,

michael







Becca wrote in message news:...
    > > We'll be going back. It's a great
    > > country to visit and, I suspect, to live in.
    >
    > On my short visit to Panama, I noticed burglar bars on all of the
    > windows and on the balconies, even the air conditioners were barred
    > down. I'm not sure I would feel safe, living in an area where
    > everything has to be nailed down, to keep people from stealing it.
    >
    > I'm going back to Panama in 3 weeks, maybe I will see a difference.
    >
    > Becca

Ken Tough

Michael wrote:

    >I was told that "they" would even pull the
    >wires and switches out of the walls of a house.

If that's the case, then "they" probably also tend to steal
telephone and power lines from the distribution network. It
can be an annoying way to lose service when you think it's just
because someone has sold the mains for the copper content..
[Happens here, apparently..]

--
Ken Tough
South Africa

nkosi278

Funny how noone has mentioned this delicious island - we spend two weeks there every other year and wish it was more.
St Martin is the better side because it is "France Outre-Mer", and is really a TRUE part of France, and we speak French the whole time there.
PTT, Croissants/Baguettes, decent Espresso coffee, it's all great !!
Sint Maarten is nominally Netherlands Antilles, but the almighty $ reigns there.....and you have to avoid Phillipsburg when the cruise ships are in.
Enjoy it!
nkosi