macliam

Good. I'd say that people here are honest, rather than negative...... although we have seen our share of people thinking Portugal would be a great place to avoid taxes, or live in continual sun, etc., etc. I've also found many expats who live in denial...... and/or insulate themselves within the expat community and treat Portugal as a summer house and/or totally ignore things portuguese (inasmuch as they can). There are many positive reasons for being in Portugal, but it's really, really, important that people also see the downside, otherwise it can be a costly experience - and there are things that are just "different" to the UK, be that for good or ill.

As an example SWMBO has just bought a replacement car in Portugal, because our old one is finally due to meet it's maker..... however (and here's the point) this is not because the engine is knackered (it goes like a rocket), nor due to cost (it is frugal) nor due to rust (not a single spot)....... but because the sun has killed all plastics and "bonded components" (the indicator lenses dropped of the other month because the glue had gone) and the dust has found it's way into the electrics , etc. (so windows stopped working, doors won't lock, etc.). Very, very different to the UK!! So, we've just paid €11k for a car we could buy for about £8.5 in the UK, but which is likely to be trouble-free for a good while.... Likewise my properties are mortgage-free and far more than I could expect in the UK for that money..... but they are also very different and not always in a good way . In terms of lifestyle, for me, there is no comparison.... but circumstances don't allow me to take the plunge full time. Good luck with your search.... I hope you find what you seek.

Greener56

Thank you macliam. Certainly food for thought.
As a final note can I just ask if you are now a fluent Portuguese speaker with having a Portuguese Wife?

macliam

I set a high bar on fluency..... though, being Irish the normall description by my outlaws would be that I "Fala Pelo os Cotovelos" or speak through my elbows.... which is as close to having the gift of the gab as you'll get!! I'm happy chatting away in Portuguese to those who don't speak English, but still feel "more comfortable" speaking the auld mother tongue. I learned French and Spanish, which helped, but all my Portuguese is "by ear", so it seems I have a Lisbon accent without trying! The downside is that my written Portuguese is less good..... but I know enough to force translation software to work correctly (they normally provide Brazilian, not Portuguese )

If you speak Italian, it will help a lot (barring those words that are just totally different) - and the false friends - I recall a fierce debate between SWMBO and an Italian waiter that the "Pesce Spada" I had been served was not "Peixe Espada" (which sounds almost identical), but "Spadarte" (swordfish..... which is what it was!). SWMBO worked with Italians in London and was convinced she spoke Italian, but a Sicilian friend of mine said she "murdered the language beautifully"!! (I think she spoke 98% Portuguese with an Italian accent!)

In Portuguese, just concentrate on the rythm of speaking and the "specials", the nasalised sounds, dipthongs and the different ways some consonents sound before certain vowels..... then be prepared to drop the ends of words, just like in English!! Then listen to the words the Portuguese prefer to use..... But mainly, just get out there and try.... don't spend too much time "book learning" because you might end up speaking a different language to your neighbours!! For example, to say "I think it's true" you can say "Penso que é verdade", which is correct, but most Portuguese will use the expression "Acho que é verdade" instead. I don't always get it right, but the Portuguese are convinced that theirs is the hardest language to learn, so are very forgiving!!

Greener56

Yes I have realised when looking up any words it’s necessary to check its European Portuguese and not Brazilian. However like you say it will definitely be better to listen to the locals and learn rather than study any books etc. I have noticed a lot of words have the end chopped off and some even sound like the person is speaking Japanese!

Thank you for the reply.

macliam

My favourite is "Estou" - I am (temporarily)
It's usually shortened to "'stou'" , pronounced "Schtow"...... 'stou cansado, I am tired
Except when used to answer the phone (like "pronto" in Italian) when it is aleays "'to'", pronounced "tow" - 'to', 'to'. Sim, quem fala? (a couple of nice nasals to practice there too!
Boa sorte!

Greener56

Saúde!
it is a minefield with all the variations but no point swearing it at this stage.
Muito Obrigado

macliam

De nada, BUT.....that'll be Muito Obrigada if you're female , the ending comes because it is reflexive, as in "I am obliged" so it takes the gender of the speaker.
Even Linguee has that wrong, having a female voice say "muito obrigado"....
Está bem?
Tchau! Até logo.

campos

The southern Italians (I'm thinking Naples) often chop off end of words. So 'ragazzi' (guys) becomes 'raga' ... one of the easier examples. I find listening to Portuguese Fado singers interesting/useful for the pronunciation.

liveaboard

I have noticed that the obrigado / obrigada thing is not so rigid as we're told when we arrive.
I wasn't sure at first so I started to pay attention; and I'm sure I've heard both males and females intentionally using the opposite term.

Similarly, our construction foreman used to address his guys as "Senhoras".
Just for reference, the foreman was a skinny little guy.

toots sweet

Ah yes the Portuguese accent......... you can listen to 10 people and each one sounds different. My OH is Portuguese and generally I can't understand a word he says! I find it easier if I have the TV to help. Big problem when the water meter man comes to call !!
Reading, I generally have no problem. If I don't know the words I can get the gist of the subject and quite like reading a newspaper(don't think I'll ever get to a book stage though).
For me the PT language isn't the problem(can speak some French and German) it's the way they speak it ....................!

sportpix

Ha! You should have a go at Cantonese! There are NINE tones, and if you get the tone wrong...

Gau, Gau, Gau is nine dog dumplings, depending on the tones used. A friend once explained to a visitor that you could easily try to ask the way to somewhere in Cantonese but actually say "I have a blue car". And then we don't go anywhere near the written text, which is often referred to as "barbed wire".

Can't wait to attack Portuguese ...

BillBullock

This is so true in the Algarve. I have neighbours who claim to be Portuguese but speak a language I don't recognise at all. Now, people from Lisbon speak the Portuguese I understand and I can have a short conversation with them.

chislenko

​​​​​​That is something that has always baffled us, Sandra, local Portuguese lady who runs our local shop always, without fail uses the male thank you O never the female A.

Have often thought of asking her why but don't want to offend. As a speaker of another European language that uses male / female, diphthongs and mutations it does make the rules a bit easier to follow.

A native English only speaker will of course be used to everything being an "it"

macliam

In the Algarve you'll find people from all over Portugal - many from the North who come to work, so it's not a very homogenous area for accents. SWMBO can identify where someone comes from by their accent, normally, but not usually bang to rights, so she'll often say "O senhor é do Norte, não é?" rather than assume... I don't find it so easy to tell accents apart, unless it's a huge difference like Brazilian, Madirense or Azoriano where the accent is much stronger. My neighbour is Alentejano, 80 years old with few teeth..... and speaks 19 to the dozen, using a lot of local words..... now he IS hard to understand, but even my friends from Lisbon have problems! Other than that, I find few local pronunciation issues (my FiLs neighbours near Agueda would ask "com eshtari?" and use other local expressions), but by and large I find far less difference than there is between a Cornishman and a Geordie, or a Corkman and a Nordie.... it depends on the exposure and the education of the speaker - and the knowledge/confidence of the listener.

Certainly Portuguese is more homogenous than the neighbours in Spain - there is only one other recognized language in Portugal, Mirandese, hard on the Spanish border in the North-East. In Spain it's different, there are many regional languages/dialects. Having learned Castillian at school, I was able to converse without issue with a guy in the mountains above Malaga, but understood about one word in 10 that his mate used..... the first was used to speaking to "outsiders", the other was speaking as he would to his cousin!. In Galicia, SWMBO was able to banter with the butcher in the market, she in Portuguese, he in Gallego...... with >90% similarity, except for some words adopted from Castillian and when written (as it uses Spainish-style spellings).

As my BiL said to me once "O português é fácil, até os bebés de nove meses o podem falar!" but maybe it's best to remember that the expression "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" translates into Portuguese as "Burro velho não aprende línguas"!!

macliam

Grammatically it's incorrect..... but, as in the UK, not everyone uses correct grammar and not everyone is well educated. Many may well have left school at 14 and learned precious little before then. In the 70s, 25% of Portuguese were illiterate and even today it still has one of the highest rates of illiteracy in Europe, between 5-10%. That's why it's easy to get caught up when trying to speak a foreign language..... the foreigner always wants to speak correctly, the native just speaks to be understood.....