Ukkram

Just an update. Our exit from PT was very pleasant with the Easyjet staff. This was very different at Bristol. The border control had absolutely no idea that my wife with her PT Residency Card could enter without a visa. He had to go off to get help from his supervisor who was also confused with the situation.
My wife was told that as she has no EU rights, she had to fill in a form stating her non EU particulars. This plus many questions got her through.

They are obviously not been told of the new regulations nor did they know that my wife had the same EU rights as a spouse of a EU member.

BritInParis

From other posters on this forum Bristol immigration don't seem to contain the sharpest tools in the UK Border Force box. Glad your wife was able to enter the UK in the end.

EMR

If the rules manage to keep just one person out of the UK who could cause harm or damage to the UK then you will not hear any complaints raised by the vast majority of the UK population.Ukrams wife got in so what is the complaint.The UK is a doddle compared to the US ..

BEVS

The issue is that Bristol border control did not know the rules which they should have. They need to sharpen up .Pleased to know that your wife gained UK entry in the end Ukkram.

BritInParis

Call me old-fashioned but if a lay person attempting to enter the UK knows more about the UK Immigration Rules than the person manning it then we have a problem. A lack of knowledge on the IO's part has nothing to do with enforcing the rules - quite the opposite - and does absolutely nothing to prevent crime or acts of terrorism.

EMR

They are employed to check passports and basic paperwork ， they are not immigration lawyers .The border agency has in the past been criticised for being far too lax.

Naaling

Police aren't lawyers either, but they are required to have knowledge of laws that are relevant to their job. Why should immigration officers be different? If they don't have a working knowledge of immigration law then what is the point of having them check passports and basic documents?

EMR

The border agency is nothing like the police, the nearest equivalent are traffic wardens.
99% of their time at airports like Bristol is checking the passports of returning holidaymakers.
I use Bristol up to 20 times year and cannot recall the last time I saw anyone subjected to checks because it is not an airport used by large numbers of travellers such as Ukrams wife.
The regs will be there in the back office with hopefully a senior member of staff available but do not expect the passport checker to know everything.

captainflack

If your aim is to keep every bad person out, then you need a big brick wall with no doors, not a border agency. Nobody comes in, no bad guys come in. Job done.

Of course though, you want to come and go. You're not a terrorist, so you expect to be able to come in. Because you have a British passport, you have a right to entry.

Well, my wife might have a Brazil passport, but she has a PT residence card with 'Family member of an EU national' on it. And that entitles her to entry to the UK too. You might not like the rules, but these are the rules. If the border staff don't know them, then they should do. You'd object if they refuse you entry with a British passport, because it should grant you access. Why should someone else with valid docs and a legal RIGHT of entry be denied?

If the UK refuses entry to EU citizens or their families who have a right of entry, it faces infraction proceedings. The border agency own guidance notes make this clear. It says infraction proceedings involve multiple departments, are time consuming and costly and can in penalties imposed on the UK, as well as compensation to those whose right to entry was violated.

Therefore, having staff who are not properly trained, or just plain incompetent, does not improve matters, it costs the UK money and the people they refuse will get in eventually anyway once the matter goes up the chain.

When they attempted to get my wife to fill out a landing card and give reasons for visit, etc. etc. one of the bouncers muttered something about 'terrorism'. When I wrote to my MP I did ask him a question. In the last 40 years, how many terrorist deaths in the UK are attributable to Brazilians? I am guessing it's around zero (the Brazilian shot dead on the tube for being a terrorist, wasn't). How many terrorist deaths in the last 40 years are attributable to people who have British passports, Irish passports or ILR in the UK, all of whom would be admitted automatically without filling in any landing card or being asked any questions?

The kind of people who're happy to have idiots manning the desks and refusing anybody willy nilly, irrespective of RULES are the kind of people who'd be happy for the police to go around shooting anyone who's a bit dark skinned on the basis you cannot be too careful. Like with entry checks, they're quite happy for cr4p to happen to other people, until it's them or their family who gets refused entry by some trained monkey, or shot in the head by terrorist-obsessed police. And then it's an outrage, because "I am obviously not a terrorist".

EMR

With an atitude like that to people who are not that well paid who deal with thousands of travellers day its no wonder you have problems.
If you have a complaint direct it at the UK government, they finance the UK border agancy, .set their targets etc.

BritInParis

No, they're really not. What you are describing is an airline check-in assistant.

A UK Border Force officer has the combined powers of a police constable and a customs officer. They should know an awful more than just how to 'check passports and basic paperwork' whatever that would entail. Not knowing about fundamental aspects of how UK and European immigration law works is a major failure on their part. This particular change in the regulations was well publicised at the time.

European court gives UK visa direction - BBC News

Non-EU family members do not need visa to enter UK, says European court | UK news | The Guardian

European court ruling threat to Britain's borders - Telegraph

EMR

What qualifications and training do you need to work for the border agancy to compare them to the police force is laughable.
Its the police they call in when necessary.
If operatives are not trained and kept up to date with changes in UK law then its the managements fault, not the person behind the desk.
They are hardly well paid from just over 16 to 23k year and the necessary qualifications are basic to say the least. 5 gces to be an assistant border officer.
Being a UK citizen and of good character are the main criteria.

BritInParis

There are no formal qualifications required to become a police officer nor do you need to be British citizen and you can even have previous criminal convictions so it's actually more difficult to become a Border Force officer than a police officer.

They are underpaid but then so are most front-line public servants. It doesn't excuse incompetence or ignorance of their basic job requirements.

EMR

You need to look at what us now required to join the police force and the level of training they go through.
There will be a job description and performance criteria set by the government for border officers. This may not in your eyes be good enough but that is not the fault of those checking passports .
You and I do not determine what their job is, that is the Home office, that is where you should direct you complaints.

captainflack

When we first came into the EU to live, after 8 years in Dubai, we came first into Amsterdam, with an onward flight to Portugal.The border guard asked about purpose of visit to my wife and we said that we were on our way to live in Portugal. He said that to issue her a Schengen visa, she needed onward ticket or return. I explained that she did not because she was an EU family member. He took us out back (including our two small kids) so he could look things up. He checked Schengen rules and said there was nothing saying she didn't need return or onward flight, I explained he was reading wrong rules, and he needed to check freedom of movement. He went off, made a call, and came back with her passport stamped for 90 days, and said we needed to register for residency within 90 days in Portugal, which we confirmed we knew already.So it is true that many border guards around the EU don't know the rules, not just the UK.However, the guy was extremely polite and professional at all times. He never came across as arrogant or condescending even though I was telling him the rules, he took us out back and went off to read the rules, and when didn't find what he needed and I indicated he was reading the wrong book, he called someone and got the right answer. We were there about 5-10 minutes. A big contrast to over an hour at Luton, where the border staff were rude, arrogant, laughed at me sarcastically when I politely explained why my wife should be treated under EU rules, not UK rules.Being polite and respectful to people doesn't take 5 GCSEs.