Dishin'upDigital

And, talking of tourists, what about those who drive into the country with a car full of goodies? Are they expected to be able to produce receipts for everything too?

sir recorder

If it is Government of Portugal's aim by these measures to stamp out the petty corruption of the Black Market, the one thing that's probably propping up the economy in these terrible days of austerity and high unemployment, then I say it will very likely fail.

If the police start harassing tourists for receipts word will swiftly get around and the resorts will severely suffer by their absence or desertion. No one will want to come here.

Whilst the police are chasing up receipts for the purchase of bananas in the markets, pickpockets will thrive as people's attentions are directed elsewhere. The general crime rate will rise, as there won't be enough police time to investigate real crime.

The measures are probably in grave restraint of the European free market and free trade rulings, and could be challenged at a higher level.

All in all these measures might add up to a loss of 5% in the GDP of the country.

Fredbargate

Honest officer I only went into the cafe to ask the time, I left my watch at home.

EMR

The GNR will not be interested in tourists, they are looking for business that DO not issue invoices and trade in cash.
We have been in bars where receipts are not given to customers ( ususally not Portuguese owned ).
As a customer the new rules are a pain as we collect even more paperwork when shopping.
There have always been rules that specify anyone on commercial business , delivering good etc should have paperwork to cover the contents of their vehicle.
Tourists are not affected by this.
There are some on this and other forums who love invent scare stories which could put off visitors to Portugal.
They may not be happy with their life in Portugal but they do not speak for everyone.
Sir Recorder you constantly harp on about the EU, what you must realise is that individual EU countries have full freedom in setting their own Tax regimes.
Portugal , the UK etc are not breaking any rules.

tombo

I would guess that the market traders are not registered for IVA.
Tills are a no go and a hand held calculator is considered "Topo da Gama"

Ingles

Don't be too sure I can imagine the market traders who sell sock's having too yelling out
"cinco pares três euros mais IVA"

sir recorder

Indeed I am constantly referring to EU rules, the EU regime etc.. We were sold an apartment here at a grossly over-priced value in Euros, and since that time have seemingly lost tens of thousands in our investment. The central problem behind this loss is the Portuguese economy and the corrupt manner in which it has been managed. Do we have a European Union, with the ability to move capital funds liberally in and out of European countries, or are each of the countries each little mafia states? Are the accounting rules fair? Or have we moved our life savings into a country with essentially what is a completely failing regime? If PT thinks it can rescue the economic disaster it is facing with measures like the "New invoicing rules", then wake up PT the world has moved on! These are petty measures which will not fix the central problem, lack of proper inward investment.

EMR

Anyone who bought a property in the UK, Spain, Ireland USA or any of the developed western economies a few years ago has lost a considerable amount of money. It is not just Portugal.
You made the decision to buy , nobody held a gun to your head.
It has little if anything to do with Portugal it is due to a global recession.
You must be aware that austerity measures not unlike those being taken in Portugal are the policy of most governments.
We all make good or bad business or lifestyle decisions. those who bought in the early part of this century and sold before 2008 were laughing all the way to the bank.
Same governments, same regimes, same EU.
As the saying goes S*** happens, we just happen to have the s******end of the stick.
We are all probably still better off than most of our Portuguese neighbours who would happily swap places with you.

Ingles

We are all probably still better off than most of our Portuguese neighbours who would happily swap places with you.[/QUOTE]

Never a tru'er word.

There is a building job running not to far from where I live & the hours are 08.00 - 18.00 + Sat 08.00 -12.00 = 196 hours per month
All for minimum wage & people are queuing up to get on it.

sir recorder

No. I personally do not accept this kind of attitude. Those who caused, were party to, had anything to do with the recession, those who fiddled billions, Governments who were party to the economic collapse. Euro MPs, MPs, any business person party to any of the recent economic disaster must and should face the consequence. They are international economic traitors, as bad as war criminals.

The people who sold us our apartment in PT were nothing but crooks. They have subsequently disappeared into the woodwork. if all that PT can do is chase a few market traders selling bananas they have lost the act. These gangsters have since gone offshore, untouchable.

EMR

We all know that governmemt policies and their lack of controls over spending encouraged the banks and us to take full advantage of the rush into property.
Yes we all bought in good faith paying the then market price.
Should government compensate us for the decisions we make ?
Are we not responsible for our own actions.

As for your last comment you again do not appear to know what is really happening. If you watched PT TV you would have seen this matter reported in depth. I did not see any market traders being interviewed, most of the focus was on the small business/shops who has had to invest in state of the art tills etc to confirm to the new rules.
But no doubt the expat community will be full as ever of unsubstantiated stories of little old lady orange sellers being carted off to jail by an over zealous GNR as she would not pay the required " cash " payment.

Dal Dy Dir

"We were sold an apartment here at a grossly over-priced value in Euros, and since that time have seemingly lost tens of thousands in our investment."

"The people who sold us our apartment in PT were nothing but crooks"

These people only sold you an apartment because you expressed an interest in buying one, otherwise that would not have known you.

Market forces set the prices for real estate, not the sellers, and the market forces were determined by lots of Northern Europeans clammering to buy when times were good thus pushing up prices.

Now we have a situation where by us Northern Europeans are not so well off so there is a shortage of buyers which results in a drop in value of real estate.

Please don't take this posting as an "I told you so" as we were also Nortehrn Europeans who at the time appeared to be relatively comfortable but after the last five years of contraction are having to watch our pennies.

Yes our property has lost money, yes we don't get out much after paying the bills but at least we have a roof over our heads.

Remember everything is cyclitic and the good times will return.

sir recorder

Try telling that to the Argentines. Things were very good there 70 years ago, but they never recovered. Their only seeming hope (for the sake of their national spirit) is to try to grab back the Malvinas. Good times never returned for them.

With the vast and ever increasing world population, labour can only get cheaper and cheaper. Only those countries sitting on huge natural resources can survive.

Fluffyhead

Going (way) back to the original post, I know that all traders who are registered for IVA are obliged to give you a receipt or a fatura with your NIF on if you ask for it BUT nowhere have I found that the customer can be fined for not having one. Please, does anyone know where this law is?

EMR

If stopped by the GNR and they think you are carrying out a comercial enterprise then the goods you have should be covered by paperwork,
But this is not a new law it has been around for years.
Why do you see so many vans stopped.

It has nothing to do with the normal consumer and your day to day purchases.