bons

Depressingly, Portuguese with Leo is waaaay to hard for me. He said it was at an intermediate level I am only midway (if I'm lucky) through A1.

macliam

That's interesting. I've watched a couple of vids and find his speech really easy to understand, firstly because he's from Lisbon, and secondly because he is used to communicating with foreigners, so enunciates well and speaks slowly.

There's nothing I've watched that I haven't understood so far.... but there are a couple of really good ones. Firstly when he tries to see how many Parisians understand Portuguese - it's great, because they're about as bad as the Brits, even though there are a million Portuguese living in Paris!! Even one whose mother is Portuguese speaks close to zero.... he also alters some words to use synonyms closer to the French words, which can be used in Portugal, but are not the normal ones.

The other is a comparison of different accents within Portugal (and islands)... and whilst I can understand what he says are the differences, I can't really hear them when his friends speak in their accents. I've always thought Portuguese to be quite homogenous, certainly moreso than English - however, it must be said that he's speaking to his young, educated friends who just happen to come from Porto or Madeira, etc..... it would be different speaking to someone older and with less schooling (like my Alentejano neighbour).

If you really have problems understanding what he's saying, then you need some conversational practice.... because knowing the vocab and grammar is little use if you can't understand the replies. Keep trying with Leo... I'm quite impressed and I'll be checking out a few more vids, not because I'm likely to learn overmuch, but it's good practice to keep my ear in whilst I'm in the UK.

riv

Have you noticed that there is a button you can press for subtitles in Portuguese on some of the Portuguese with Leo videos ?
I suggest you persist with the PWL vids : you don't have to understand on first watching : repeat the watch ( they are generally quite short ) three, five, ten, twenty times if necessary till you get at least some of what he is saying.

He speaks extremely clearly, and at a slightly slower pace than do most Portuguese when they are speaking at normal conversational speed.

bons

I did say my Portuguese is not brilliant and that I'm not good with the listening side of pronunciaton. I think I'm just not at that level yet so I'm looking for something else. I need a personal tutor or a small group class.

ricko

I have a very acute problem listening to Portuguese.
I have been listening to the television news.
Not to understand what is being said, but with a view to getting used to listening to Portuguese sounds.

macliam

Do either of you speak other languages? Can you "understand" people speaking in languages other than English?

I'll admit it took me a short time to attune my ear to Portuguese when I met SWMBO (I'd had asolutely no exposure to it before then) and some of the sounds were off-putting (all OW and Shhh) - but it was a fairly short time before i realised that much of the grammar was like Castilian and the vocab was familiar (if you allowed for the known Portuguese letter changes - Castilian "l" becomes "r", playa to praia, plaza to praça, etc., words ending "ión" become "ão", construcción to construção, etc.). The nasalized sounds were easier thanks to exposure in French.

Listening to the TV..... especially to things spoken at a rate acceptable to native Portuguese speakers, is always going to be difficult. The diction may be clear and there will be less slang, etc., but it will still use common "shorcuts" like unfamiliar abreviations or references to things only the Portuguese will recognize. When you can do it, you've arrived! The Listen with Leo vids seem good as he speaks more slowly and clearly... and you can have subtitles and repeat the vids over and over. His content seems pretty good too. I'd not watched it before, so I'm impressed. ​​​​​​​

macliam

Just as an addition to this (for those who don't know it) the DeepL translator (https://www.deepl.com/en/translator) is a far better translator than Google translate, because it is able to distinguish between Portuguese and Brazilian.

As an example.... the phrase "John catches the bus and the train every day" translates as "John pega o ônibus e o trem todos os dias" in Brazilian, but as "John apanha o autocarro e o comboio todos os dias" in Portuguese..... showing a difference in both vocabulary and grammar. For those who don't think this makes much difference, have a look at ths vid (and don't get put off by the first minute or so.... put on the English translation and see......)

ricko

I speak a little Spanish and a little French, but not even at intermediate level.
Sometimes I can get get an understanding if I catch a couple of keywords in a sentence. But that does not happen in Portuguese.
The problem is because I don't recognise words that I can already read/write/speak.
This appears more because of the lack of clarity in pronunciation rather than the speed.

macliam

When you say "lack of clarity", I doubt it..... maybe it's probably just not what you expect from treading a word with an "English" head on? f it was really "lack of clarity", then the Portuguese wouldn't understand each other - and patently, they do.

Portuguese shares many of the faults of English..... words are shortened and slurred, letters are ignored, slang is used, etc., etc. but it has two big advatages over English.... firstly the rules of pronunciation are very regular - if you know the Portuguese rules, you will know how to pronounce a word (no plough or rough, nor care or cart) and the regional differences are very small (there's no really strong regional differences like Tyneside or Glasgow). However, the rules of pronunciation in Portuguese are DIFFERENT to those in English, so they have to be learned.... then you're away. Portuguese vocabulary and grammar is no more difficult than most European languages - and easier than many..... but you really have to get used to hearing and making the sounds that make Portuguese different.

bons

The trouble for me is, when I speak I see the word written down,it's the way I learn. So copas, becomes copsh, I have to write a rough pronunciation next to the actual written word. I do forget when sepaking and by the time I might have understood a word someone has said, I'm floundering with the rest of the sentence.I can't learn a language without seeing it written down first, I kind of need a hook otherwise it's just a rush of sounds coming at me with no struucture. I am learning the pronunciation first now, it might help.

I listened to the first Leo video, maybe I should give it another go, but I couldn't understand any of it and it was fast for me. I have three years to learn Portuguese if I want to take that citizen test - I think that's right. I'm not giving up. I just can't find a tutor near me.

And thanks for the link to that translation.

macliam

I don't quite understand your first point, as Portuguese is spoken pretty much as it's written.... if you follow Portuguese rules, but obviously not if you don't. You should try Irish for words that really seem disconnected from the written form (but again, only if you don't know the rules).

However, pronunciation and the comprehension of spoken Portuguese is plainly key to you (and many others). I had the same issue, but for a very short time (though I'd lie if I was to say i am never caught out). You asked before about being fluent.... I set a high bar for that and I fall below it because understanding a full conversation sometimes requires a lot of concentration, otherwise it can just flow past. Likewise, conversing in a group of many people can be difficult if everyone talks together.... i'm more a one-to-one conversationalist! I don't know why I didn't have the difficulty with pronunciation that many people seem to have...... maybe it's speaking Hiberno-English and always having to look for other ways to say things!!

Maybe what you need is to converse with someone keen to practice their English..... but your problem might be ensuring that you get what you need, rather than supplying them with a study-aid.

You also have to learn to say "I didn't understand, please repeat it more slowly" then you have the choice of entender, perceber or compreender The best distinction for these (which all mean "to understand" at some level) is Entender: to understand, Perceber: to note (perceive), Compreender: to comprehend ..... but in reality entender is used as a less formal expression, so "Não entendi o que me disse, por favor repita mais devagar"

Good luck!

Geronimal

If you want a good Portuguese course that teaches pronunciation and listening skills then the best, imho, are the Michel Thomas method and Talk the Streets. Both aren’t cheap but are amongst the best for getting a real understanding on how to listen and speak like the Portuguese, they will teach you what the other apps and methods won’t.
You can get the Michel Thomas method from a UK library on loan and I think both offer freebies to try,
It takes time and commitment and after 2.5 years I am just starting to get somewhere with it. Trouble is I sound so authentic that the Portuguese think I can speak it fluently and rattle off ten to the dozen at me, I gawp, then they laugh and go back to English. It’s a process lol.

toots sweet

I too don't find a problem qith the pronunciation of PT words. Though my OH does pick me up if i say a word that he 's not happy with ,i.e Santarem. My UK head just makes me want to say that last M when it should be more or less silent and end up almost pushed up your nose!!! I also seem to be able to read it well enough to get the gist of the subject unless its technical and I'm not interested in the subject!
I've had a look at PT with Leo and quite like it and will give it ago.I try not to read any subtitles underneath to help with my listening skills, and I have found that I can pick up quite a few words when he's speaking. I do have trouble though when my listening/translating speed can't keep up with the conversation and then I'm totally lost.

macliam

I listened to a few videos from Talk the Streets....... Liz speaks Portuguese very well and shows what can be achieved.... this video might also help with a bit of that "lack of clarity"

ricko

Your description "many of the faults of English..... words are shortened and slurred, letters are ignored, slang is used, etc." leads
to what I called "lack of clarity in pronunciation".
Hence my choice of TV news to eliminate some of those problems.
However, there are some announcers that I still do not recognise any words with.