Language
 

How is everyone getting on with Portuguese? I'm doing OKish, but I need a tutor. I'm over in Eastern Algarve for now, does anyone know of one or even use one that they can recommend? Thanks

Re: Language
 

Can't help with real life tutors.
However, I highly recommend the youtube channel ' Portuguese with Leo '.

This has been going for a couple of years now, so if you find the channel there are quite a few videos already uploaded to it.

Apart from language learning, he talks about a large variety of topics, so you learn useful stuff along the way.

It is completely free of upfront charges; however you can donate on his Patreon channel if you wish ( and quite a few people do appreciate the quality of the lessons enough to do so ).

Re: Language
 

Thanks.I'll look into that. My problem is the pronunciation, well a bit more than that but it's definitely an big issue for me. I'm a visual learner so I have to write a word down as it is spelled, then put a vague phonetic word showing pronunciation next ot it, otherwise I have no chance.

Re: Language
 

I learned French and Castilian at school, so it gave me a head start - but my Portuguese is all learned through 30 years of marriage to an Alfacinha whose family speak no English! The problem is that you expect things to sound as they would in English....... but they don't because some letters have a very different sound, so that is the first thing to learn. After that you already know loads of Portuguese words, because they're close to the English equivalents once you know to "alter" them - apart from a few "false friends" which you'll soon learn (puxe, pronounced pooshuh, for pull is one of my favourites!)

However, Portuguese pronunciation is regular, unlike English..... so once you have learned the "rules" it's very predicatble. Unfortunately, through lack of skill or to extend their employment, many tutors don't bother to explain these rules and just lead you through vocabulary a word at a time..... so each seems "odd" when you compare it to what you might expect in English. It's also mind-numbingly boring. Many tutors seem to make a meal (literally) out of teaching the language - but do you want to understand and be understood, or to stand for Parliament? Be wary of any tutor who immediately wants to immerse you in the glories of extended grammar..... and think how badly many english people speak English - it's the same for Portuguese and you can actually get by quite well on the present tense and a bit of acting! No matter how well you learn to speak Portuguese, you'll always stand out as a foreigner, so set your sights on being understood.

Have a look at this https://european-portuguese.info/ - but there are other guides and videos out there. Basiclally, all letters are pronounced in the same way and all words have their stress in the same place..... unless there is an accent to tell you differently (unlike English, where you have to guess!). Therefore an acute accent ove a vowel changes ehat you'd expect to be the "normal" stress pattern for a word of that many syllables, a cedilla under a "c" makes it a soft "s" sound where you might expect it ro be "k", a tilde over the "a" in an "ao" dipthong makes it a nasal "own" sound (with the n swallowed), etc. That's about it - there are few rules and they are pretty constant, so once you learn them, you're set up.

Of course, learning to pronounce things is one thing, recognizing them when they're gabbled at you by a toothless Alentejano at breakneck speed is quite another - but you get used to it! :lol:

Re: Language
 

Thanks for this, espectially the rules part, very useful to know. I know it's not going to sound like English in certain words which is why I write down a vague pronunciation next to the word. I forget the pronunciation sometimes when I speak!! I have my basic phrases and usually they are understood, I mean basic though. I have a dog and cannot get the ending for the word right so I use cadella instead, much easier for me to say. I often say 'preciso de' so that I can give the infinitive of the next verb. I am trying to learn conjugatins but the irregular ones are tricky. I learned French at school and I lived in Spain for two years and learned some of the language, Portuguese is something else! I'm not giving up!!!

Re: Language
 

If you learned French, you'll be used to nasalised sounds, like the "n" in "Vin", where the "n" is swallowed...... so the "ão" sound is similar, so "Cão" is pronounced like Cow-n, with the "n" swallowed. The plural is more difficult "Cães" is pronounced like "kine-sh", again with the "n" swallowed. Once you've got it, it's easy and constant... Dão, Pão, São, então .... and of course Não all follow the same rule. The other one that catches the normal Brit is any word ending in "em" like "vem", "Santarem", "bem", etc. not pronounced "em" but more like "eyn" with the nasalized sound for the "n"..... or for the "m" in "bom" - and another reminder is "Bom día", with the nasalized "m" and the accent over the "i" telling you the stress on that word is on the the "i" (deey-ah) as opposed to normal stress on the last syllable (deeyaaaaah).

Once you crack the pronunciation differences, Portuguese is spoken like English.... complete with shotened words, dropped endings and all the rest!!

Keep trying!

Re: Language
 

I will, thanks for the info. I've cut and pasted your mini lessons, I need all the help I can get. Are you fluent in Portuguse now?

Re: Language
 

I'd have to work a lot more on my grammar to be "fluent" - and that's too much like hard work! My aim is to understand and be understood, rather than to sppeak like a native....

I can hold a conversation and ask for anything I need - and I know enough to be able to explain things I might not know how to say directly (a bit like your Cadella not Cão!!) My vocab and pronunciation are pretty good... so that helps. I can read Portuguese enough understand official documents...other than when they go into pure bureaucrat-speak (but I can recognize that too). When it comes to writing, that's more of a struggle, but I can tailor generated translations to make them sound more "Portuguese", because whilst I might lack the grammar to write things directly, I know enough to know when DeepL makes a pig's ear of what I want to say, or makes it sound Brazilian, rather than Portuguese.

So I get by.....;)

I did have a real problem understanding my 90 year-old neighbour in the Alentejo, but a visiting friend from Lisbon said that he also found it difficult, so that made me feel a lot better!

Re: Language
 

I've barely learned any Portuguese in the 12 years I've lived here.
I don't know if I'm really bad at languages (I only lived in an English language country for 12 of my 61 years), or I'm just lazy.

Re: Language
 

There isn't an accent in "dia".

Re: Language
 

The problem we have found is that the majority of people speak English in Algarve. We have two neighbours, neither 'next door' and are Portuguese. We too can 'get by'. We tool lessons in the UK (teaching Brazilian and all about coffees and cakes) and had private lessons from a Portuguese many years ago who said we were too advanced to start from scratch so pick it up as we go along. What I don't do is deal with medical issues in Portuguese so go private.

Re: Language
 

Sorry, you're right :o, I'm thinking Spanish.... I said my written was rubbish! - https://www.portuguesepedia.com/portuguese-word-stress/

Re: Language
 

I still split my time between Portugal and the UK, so that doesn't help...... if I was full time in Portugal it would make a difference. One thing I still find difficult is conversing over the phone..... I don't know why. I'm also not sure whether learning Brazilian helps at all..... the pronunciation,vocab, some grammar and overall way of speaking are so different.... certainly more different than the slight differences of pronunciation within Portugal (although the Alentejo has it's own way.... :lol:) - it's another thing I'm not well attuned to - SWMBO can pick out someone from a region, but I don't find it so easy. Luckily there are now some websites dealing specifically with "European Portuguese", though most tend to be Brazilian, just like "English" is often the US version. DeepL as a translator is far better than Google, for example, when set to European.

I agree about "technical" terms.... I still feel more comfortable with these in English, but that's because I doubt my own understanding..... Many Portuguese professionals speak English these days, though their English is sometimes as "interesting" as my Portuguese!

Re: Language
 

You're not alone in that. I dislike it intensely, although I usually manage fine once I've steeled myself to it.

I think it's a measure of our normal reliance on non-verbal communication.

Re: Language
 

I think you're right..... even talking to my BiL, which is normally easy, becomes a bit stilted (on my side) when speaking on the phone and I'm never very happy with the experience.

However, he's also thereason I'm wary of Brazilian. Early on, trying to be really good, I avoided using "tu" and dared to use "você" with him. The immediate respose was "Eh pá, es brasileiro, ou o quê?!!" :lol: