Diddion

Amazing admin! Do you give lessons?

Shanorme

You wouldn't want lessons from me. I thought I might need to have a rescue crew on hand before I went searching!

orangeblossom

I can't give a full answer to this but I know that you can be tax resident in more than one country, or tax resident for part of a UK tax year so I cannot see how the residency rule can be as strict if you do not have NHR status. I have a brother-in-law who is has in the past been tax resident in both UK and Ireland. I remember reading up on this when I first bought a property in Portugal and I think I found the info on the HMRC website. Given that the tax years in the UK and Portugal are different, the calculations of how many days you were in which country in which tax year could get complicated.
When I went and registered my residency in Portugal, having stayed just over 90 days, no mention was made of tax residency but I read somewhere recently (perhaps on this forum) that applying for residency meant you were automatically registered as a portuguese tax resident. Does anyone know more about this. Does that mean 93 days after becoming resident (i.e. when I reach the 183 days) I will be considered tax resident too? At the moment I am registered for taxes in Portugal but am UK tax resident and my portuguese tax payments are offset against my UK taxes. My understanding was that if you took NHR status you gave up being a UK tax resident so if you rented out your house in the UK, which I would want to do if I moved to Portugal permanently, it would be taxed in Portugal and not in the UK but that does not seem to be the understanding of others here. Any further clarification on this would be helpful. At the moment, my NIF is registered with a UK address.

orangeblossom

I am not sure that this is true for all individuals, and here is why, please clarify if my logic is wrong.
I have a pension from a UK public university, which is my main source of income. Although in the UK, university lecturers aren't generally considered public employees they way they are in other countries, the Portuguese might well consider my pension public. Public pensions are exempt from NHR benefits, so as with atlasthemonk the main benefit of NHR doesn't apply to me. I think I read somewhere that the Portuguese don't tax public pensions, if this is correct, then surely if I became a regular Portuguese tax resident that would be more advantageous to me than having NHR status, especialy if it meant I could continue to go back and forth between the two countries and exceed 183 days in the UK if I wanted to (since if I was still partially tax resident in the UK, I would be paying exactly the same tax as I do now).

RichardHenshall

You can, by each country's rules, pass the tests that can cause each country to claim that you are tax-resident in their country but when more than one country can claim you, there are usually tie-breaker tests that determine which country's claim will prevail. The part-year situation really only applies when you move tax-residency from one country to another where you are tax-resident in your 'origin' country for the first part and tax resident in the 'destination' country for the remainder. When the tax years are not aligned the different country's views of the fractions will differ.

Income from real estate is normally taxed first in the country where the property is located and second in the country where the owner is tax-resident, with tax paid in the first country generally allowed against the liability in the second. If the property is in the UK and the owner is tax-resident in Portugal and holds NHR status there should be no further income tax to pay in Portugal - generally considered a benefit.

As has been said repeatedly, NHR status is a tax status (not a residency status) and is available to certain tax-residents in Portugal. It has no bearing on the residency rules for Portugal and only affects the tax you might pay in Portugal.

I'm no expert in the subtleties of lecturer's pensions but I would imagine that it is mainly up to the UK tax authorities to determine if they have the right to tax a non-resident pensioner's pension and then up to any double-taxation treaty to determine whether the other country can too. If you are going to receive your pension in the UK, own (income-generating) property in the UK and spend more than half the year in the UK you may well find yourself considered a UK tax-resident, in which case you aren't Portuguese tax-resident and cannot have NHR status. Even if you are able to loosen your ties with the UK to allow you to become a Portuguese tax-resident and your pension is only taxed by the UK and it uses up your whole UK personal tax allowance so that any property income is fully taxed in the UK you will still be better off (or no worse off) being tax-resident in Portugal with NHR status (at the moment) than being in Portugal without NHR status, though the latter may be worse than organising your affairs to remain a UK tax-resident.

Remember that you don't get to choose which country you are tax-resident in but you do get to choose what actions you take (such as where you live, work, locate your financial assets etc) that will in turn be used to determine your tax-residency.

Euroguy

OK, you have me confused (which isn't hard!) so do l need to fly over & claim residency before the 30th Jan or before December 2020???

Shanorme

If the WA is ratified, which is highly likely, then December 2020. If it is not signed, then it will need to have been done by 30th of Jan.

Euroguy

There are a lot of if's & but's being thrown around on this & other threads, which for a non-expert can lead to confusion & possible upset for the future!

dingg

That's because everyone is in the same boat and does not know how the ruins are going to play out at the end of the month.

Euroguy

So maybe some people should just either not reply with half arsed answers or just admit to not knowing how it will play out?

Shanorme

I gave you the facts; should I have patted you on the shoulder and told you everything will turn out just fine instead?

Euroguy

Now then Princess, don't go throwing a hissy, but you didn't actually know the answer so why bother pontificating?

Shanorme

I did answer the question but you don't like the answer. I don't have a crystal ball and nor does anyone else on the forum. The likelihood is the WA will be ratified - so you 'should' be fine until Dec 2020 BUT it is NOT a certainty. I really can't make it any plainer or simpler for you. If you don't like the answer, that's tough but it doesn't change the reality.

Euroguy

Let me make this a little clearer for you,,,,,you DID NOT actually answer the question specifically, but you did try your best so for that l thank you.

Rosemary

Why are you expecting people to be experts when it is impossible due to the fact that the politicians have not defined anything at this stage. So members are trying to work things out and say what they think may happen. Naturally this means that there are bound to be a lot of "if´s and buts". They are not trying to misguide any one, they are not saying "this is how it will be", they are truly trying to be helpful. If the help that they have provided is not to your liking you will need to accept this and not put any blame onto them or be verbally abusive to them.

Rosemary