The embarrassment factor
May 21st 2017 | 4:12 am
#31
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Re: The embarrassment factor
i've lived and worked in many parts of the world
In Europe we're mainly raised with the same influences - tv - music- christianity - culture
i lived for many years in france - the children in my view are the best behaved in Europe - the parents - not always - but still almost always civilised
The German children polite interested and outward looking
the Dutch - very Conservative in the main - certainly polite
Americans spoilt - ambitious - but mostly very polite
Belgiums - mostly polite if a little reserved - but open once you got to know them
Spanish - a bit iffy but always nice when Spanish adults were present
Portuguese - lively excitable often overindulged but mostly polite and cheerful
the one thing you could not say about any of the children i met in almost 20 years was uncontrolled obnoxious spoilt brat ignorant nightmare
i've met some lovely English children - but far too many that fit into the previous line
In Europe we're mainly raised with the same influences - tv - music- christianity - culture
i lived for many years in france - the children in my view are the best behaved in Europe - the parents - not always - but still almost always civilised
The German children polite interested and outward looking
the Dutch - very Conservative in the main - certainly polite
Americans spoilt - ambitious - but mostly very polite
Belgiums - mostly polite if a little reserved - but open once you got to know them
Spanish - a bit iffy but always nice when Spanish adults were present
Portuguese - lively excitable often overindulged but mostly polite and cheerful
the one thing you could not say about any of the children i met in almost 20 years was uncontrolled obnoxious spoilt brat ignorant nightmare
i've met some lovely English children - but far too many that fit into the previous line
May 21st 2017 | 4:24 am
#32
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From: central Portugal
Re: The embarrassment factor
At the risk of going off topic; We must of course temper our opinions with the acceptance that just because our ways are our ways, they might not be the ways of other cultures & indeed it could sometimes be our ignorance of those other cultures that cause us to misunderstand the situation.
I've been in places where young (black) children have been misunderstood by other white people with me as being unfriendly & truculent.......... until I explained the kids that were standing around them, shuffling their feet and looking at the ground were actually showing respect & waiting for us Muzungus to gently tap each one on the forehead to acknowledge their presence so they could look up and talk to us.
Sometimes things aren't quite as straightforward as they first appear.
I've been in places where young (black) children have been misunderstood by other white people with me as being unfriendly & truculent.......... until I explained the kids that were standing around them, shuffling their feet and looking at the ground were actually showing respect & waiting for us Muzungus to gently tap each one on the forehead to acknowledge their presence so they could look up and talk to us.
Sometimes things aren't quite as straightforward as they first appear.
May 21st 2017 | 4:29 am
#33
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Re: The embarrassment factor
Same in Hungary, children (& adults) generally much better mannered.
Little story - we have a neighbour (a journalist in his 30s) who on our 3rd meeting asked if he could address my Wife by her Christian name. She was quite happy about this & commented favourably. He then explained that while we could address our other neighbours as A**** & Zs***** he couldn't possibly and unless otherwise instructed would continue to address them as Mr & Mrs R****.
Little story - we have a neighbour (a journalist in his 30s) who on our 3rd meeting asked if he could address my Wife by her Christian name. She was quite happy about this & commented favourably. He then explained that while we could address our other neighbours as A**** & Zs***** he couldn't possibly and unless otherwise instructed would continue to address them as Mr & Mrs R****.
May 21st 2017 | 4:34 am
#34
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 379
Re: The embarrassment factor
At the risk of going off topic; We must of course temper our opinions with the acceptance that just because our ways are our ways, they might not be the ways of other cultures & indeed it could sometimes be our ignorance of those other cultures that cause us to misunderstand the situation.
I've been in places where young (black) children have been misunderstood by other white people with me as being unfriendly & truculent.......... until I explained the kids that were standing around them, shuffling their feet and looking at the ground were actually showing respect & waiting for us Muzungus to gently tap each one on the forehead to acknowledge their presence so they could look up and talk to us.
Sometimes things aren't quite as straightforward as they first appear.
I've been in places where young (black) children have been misunderstood by other white people with me as being unfriendly & truculent.......... until I explained the kids that were standing around them, shuffling their feet and looking at the ground were actually showing respect & waiting for us Muzungus to gently tap each one on the forehead to acknowledge their presence so they could look up and talk to us.
Sometimes things aren't quite as straightforward as they first appear.
but in the world we now live in - mainland europe - things are sadly - in the case of the UK - very much as they appear
Of course there are always exceptions and culture continues to change so there's always hope for the future
May 21st 2017 | 4:43 am
#35
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Posts: 4,111
From: central Portugal
Re: The embarrassment factor
i think your experiences are interesting and unique
but in the world we now live in - mainland europe - things are sadly - in the case of the UK - very much as they appear
Of course there are always exceptions and culture continues to change so there's always hope for the future
but in the world we now live in - mainland europe - things are sadly - in the case of the UK - very much as they appear
Of course there are always exceptions and culture continues to change so there's always hope for the future
If the kids aren't taught respect for others they simply won't have it no matter what country they live in.
May 21st 2017 | 5:17 am
#36
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,759
From: Land of no recession
Re: The embarrassment factor
i love Carvoeiro - it has a great mix of different nationalities living there who virtually all get along really well and a friendly family atmosphere that makes it nice even at the height of the tourist season
Sadly what it does have is that tiny minority of expats who believe they own the place
The absolute worst of the 'british empire' we rule the waves are the most important people in the world etc - a tiny minority well known to the people who live there
A couple of years ago we were in one of our favourite restaurants there in the summertime and they were already there and had ordered whilst we had an aperitif - very loud so difficult to not notice them - i don't know them but had seen them around several times
we were just sitting down at our table when their food arrived - they made the worlds biggest fuss - said they didn't want their meals - too long coming they said - and walked out - the poor portuguese waiter had no idea what to do
They had waited no more than 15 - 20 mins - in summertime
We called the waiter over - we hadn't ordered - and said whatever it was we would take their meal - and very nice it was too
Sadly it doesn't take many like that to ruin a small place - the good old British attitude rules the waves and makes us the least popular foreigners in Europe
Sadly what it does have is that tiny minority of expats who believe they own the place
The absolute worst of the 'british empire' we rule the waves are the most important people in the world etc - a tiny minority well known to the people who live there
A couple of years ago we were in one of our favourite restaurants there in the summertime and they were already there and had ordered whilst we had an aperitif - very loud so difficult to not notice them - i don't know them but had seen them around several times
we were just sitting down at our table when their food arrived - they made the worlds biggest fuss - said they didn't want their meals - too long coming they said - and walked out - the poor portuguese waiter had no idea what to do
They had waited no more than 15 - 20 mins - in summertime
We called the waiter over - we hadn't ordered - and said whatever it was we would take their meal - and very nice it was too
Sadly it doesn't take many like that to ruin a small place - the good old British attitude rules the waves and makes us the least popular foreigners in Europe
May 21st 2017 | 5:32 am
#37
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Re: The embarrassment factor
i love Carvoeiro - it has a great mix of different nationalities living there who virtually all get along really well and a friendly family atmosphere that makes it nice even at the height of the tourist season
Sadly what it does have is that tiny minority of expats who believe they own the place
The absolute worst of the 'british empire' we rule the waves are the most important people in the world etc - a tiny minority well known to the people who live there
A couple of years ago we were in one of our favourite restaurants there in the summertime and they were already there and had ordered whilst we had an aperitif - very loud so difficult to not notice them - i don't know them but had seen them around several times
we were just sitting down at our table when their food arrived - they made the worlds biggest fuss - said they didn't want their meals - too long coming they said - and walked out - the poor portuguese waiter had no idea what to do
They had waited no more than 15 - 20 mins - in summertime
We called the waiter over - we hadn't ordered - and said whatever it was we would take their meal - and very nice it was too
Sadly it doesn't take many like that to ruin a small place - the good old British attitude rules the waves and makes us the least popular foreigners in Europe
Sadly what it does have is that tiny minority of expats who believe they own the place
The absolute worst of the 'british empire' we rule the waves are the most important people in the world etc - a tiny minority well known to the people who live there
A couple of years ago we were in one of our favourite restaurants there in the summertime and they were already there and had ordered whilst we had an aperitif - very loud so difficult to not notice them - i don't know them but had seen them around several times
we were just sitting down at our table when their food arrived - they made the worlds biggest fuss - said they didn't want their meals - too long coming they said - and walked out - the poor portuguese waiter had no idea what to do
They had waited no more than 15 - 20 mins - in summertime
We called the waiter over - we hadn't ordered - and said whatever it was we would take their meal - and very nice it was too
Sadly it doesn't take many like that to ruin a small place - the good old British attitude rules the waves and makes us the least popular foreigners in Europe
Yikes Carve that is absolutely appalling ... poor waiter indeed as I'm sure he would have had to pay for those meals himself.
May 21st 2017 | 5:33 am
#38
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Re: The embarrassment factor
I do not think that it is an exclusively British thing.
We know a bar owner who has dress standards, no beach wear, no shirt no shoes no service.
He gets abuse from just about every nationality who visits his bar .
I think the problem is partly due to the fact thst we live increasingly pressurised lives and expect the same immediate service we are used to when grabbing a rushed lunch or snack for the other 40 plus weeks of the year.
Chill out , you are on holiday.
We know a bar owner who has dress standards, no beach wear, no shirt no shoes no service.
He gets abuse from just about every nationality who visits his bar .
I think the problem is partly due to the fact thst we live increasingly pressurised lives and expect the same immediate service we are used to when grabbing a rushed lunch or snack for the other 40 plus weeks of the year.
Chill out , you are on holiday.
May 21st 2017 | 5:35 am
#39
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Re: The embarrassment factor
May 21st 2017 | 5:39 am
#40
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Re: The embarrassment factor
May 21st 2017 | 5:43 am
#41
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Re: The embarrassment factor
we were just embarassed and angry that they clearly were just trying to cause trouble - even more so as they weren't tourists - just seemed the right thing to do at the time - and i wil pretty much eat anything - so it wasn't a hardship
May 21st 2017 | 5:44 am
#42
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Re: The embarrassment factor
There has been an thread going on the TripAdvisor Algarve forum about the negative effects drunken Brits, hen and stag parties are having on what was once an area free of such groups.
Not only are they discouraging families and other Brits they confirm the impression many other nationalities have of us.
You cannot really blame the bar owners who have struggled during years of recession but something has to change.
The behaviour of these groups never will.
Not only are they discouraging families and other Brits they confirm the impression many other nationalities have of us.
You cannot really blame the bar owners who have struggled during years of recession but something has to change.
The behaviour of these groups never will.
May 21st 2017 | 6:01 am
#43
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Re: The embarrassment factor
I agree completely........ it's very rare to see a badly behaved Portuguese child here whereas it's relatively rare to see a well behaved Brit child here.
But that said, I'm old enough to remember seeing two adolescent children get a poes klaap from an adult (who turned out to be their teacher) walking behind them simply because they'd failed to raise their hats to me............. he made them chase after me, apologise & then do as they should have done in the first place.
But that said, I'm old enough to remember seeing two adolescent children get a poes klaap from an adult (who turned out to be their teacher) walking behind them simply because they'd failed to raise their hats to me............. he made them chase after me, apologise & then do as they should have done in the first place.
We have to accept that the way we have chosen to go in the UK re-bringing up our families is rather sad. We have put money first. and family last. Kids now are brought up by the TV and iPad ,the iPhone, twitter and Facebook Parents often completely absent in the equation.Both working to afford all the things now deemed essential in their lives. 'Things' that replace parenting.
We also have an historical attitude towards children.. Seen but not heard.. a pest to be kept out of the way..preferable by someone else,whilst they.. the parents have fun. Leisure is big for the Brits. I sometimes pop into another British forum just for women. It astounds me how much they are always 'treating themselves' farming their kids out in the process'. Everything from spa days.. to cruises twice or three times a year. These are not well off people either. I haven't even begun with the endless shopping..all on credit of course.
It is quite marked amongst grandparents in the UK now who are more often than not roped in to look after the grandkids,not for the odd day.. but so the daughter or DIL can go back to work.It has now happened to three of my friends. and they are not at all happy.. exhausted in fact.. but can't do anything about it. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see where kids left to fend for themselves end up..
May 21st 2017 | 6:05 am
#44
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Re: The embarrassment factor
Same in Hungary, children (& adults) generally much better mannered.
Little story - we have a neighbour (a journalist in his 30s) who on our 3rd meeting asked if he could address my Wife by her Christian name. She was quite happy about this & commented favourably. He then explained that while we could address our other neighbours as A**** & Zs***** he couldn't possibly and unless otherwise instructed would continue to address them as Mr & Mrs R****.
Little story - we have a neighbour (a journalist in his 30s) who on our 3rd meeting asked if he could address my Wife by her Christian name. She was quite happy about this & commented favourably. He then explained that while we could address our other neighbours as A**** & Zs***** he couldn't possibly and unless otherwise instructed would continue to address them as Mr & Mrs R****.
Last edited by GeniB; May 21st 2017 at 6:11 am.
May 21st 2017 | 6:12 am
#45
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Re: The embarrassment factor
It was interesting o hear some of the stories ..But what do we do about this before it gets worse. Anyone any idea's.. Its not good enough to simple shrug our shoulders , especially with Brexit looming. It does affect us,and maybe more negatively in the future.
Personally I feel our consuls and Embassies should do more . Ditto our government. Maybe a polite warning at airports.on planes. at schools etc etc..
Plus I asked if you would ,or have, ever intervened?
Personally I feel our consuls and Embassies should do more . Ditto our government. Maybe a polite warning at airports.on planes. at schools etc etc..
Plus I asked if you would ,or have, ever intervened?
