ElizabethUk

Hi everyone.
I am new to this site and I am hoping to gain bags of knowledge here.
A bit about myself. Currently living in SE of England. Just outside London. Me and my hubby love Portugal. We discovered it 7 years ago. Visited almost every year now during winter months and we love it. We looking to move in next 10 years. First we will buy something and use it as a holiday home and than move it permanently.
I already started to educating myself about taxes/laws and so on. I hope to start my Portuguese course from January. Hubby has an advantage on me because he speaks Spanish a bit so he will learn faster. We are going to visit Portugal again at the end of February 2017 for a week. This time we want to start to explore more the potential areas we would like to settle into.
My first dilemma.
As a horse lover and owner, my plan is to buy a house with enough land to keep 2 horses plus run a livery yard/equine holiday center. I will need around w10 acres for it.
I am wondering if Northern Portugal and geeen coast will be more suitable for it .We never visited North as yet. I heard that winter are mild but very wet and gray....much like UK just much warmer.Is that true. On the other hand I have heard that is cheaper to buy a property there and hay and feeds for horses due to lush pastures.
Algavre is off the list as it's to dry and too hot true the summer. I know that hay and feeds comes as a premium there and make running that kind of business harder.
We love silver coast. We have visited 3 places there . I love Cascais and places North of it. But than it seams like an expensive place to buy a land. I have heard that middle of the country is great for horse lovers. I have read somewhere that Santarem is places that I should consider.
I would love to be relatively close to the water but it don't have to be Atlantic. Big lake would do too. I love trail riding/hacking, therefore somewhere with National Park or lot of wild nature nearby is a must.
Any suggestions?
I will highly apriciate all constructive feedback.

EMR

There are a number of established equine centres in the Algarve serving the local population and the tourist market.
The weather is obviously not an obstacle for them.
Is the business asoect essentiak for your move ?
Are you aiming at the tourist,leisure market or just somewhere to live with your horses.

macliam

If looking for a business, I think the market is probably pretty saturated (I think there are 3 stables within a stone's throw of me) - it's a question of who will pay and where they are. Look back over the forum and you'll see much advice given regarding business prospects - it boils down to, anything you think of has probably already been tried - you need a gap in the market and to ensure there is a customer base for your product.

If not, then there are vast areas of the Alentejo which are possible - land (away from the hotspots) is relatively cheap and it has a vast Atlantic coast and lakes everywhere.

mikelincs

Welcome to BE, one problem which may raise it's head within your time frame is, of course, Brexit and as yet no-one knows how this will affect people wanting to move. Just keep your eyes on the news as it comes, and ignore the scare stories from both camps

ElizabethUk

Hi guys. Thank you for your answers. I will try to answer all your questions. Yes, horses are part of the move. Business wise I think I have a good plan for it. I know loads people from different countries to come and stay with us.....I have a families all over the world from US and Canada to Germany, Easter European and UK. As I wasn"t born in UK I already have EU passport so that is not an obsticle either. Business wise I think I will be exploring that further but I don't want to say too much as I am working on my business plan slowly. Either way this is not our prime income as we own few properties in UK and will be able to fund ourselves regarding of how well the business goes. If it goes well, than we good, if not ,than we will live on a smaller budget than � ���� . For that reasons I am not focusing on business profitability and more where we would like to settle and where horses will be happy. Only then I can be happy really.....I know that's such a cliché � ����. As I meantioned I like to be organise. That's how we live our life. So far we achieved everything what we wanted. And maybe we will be able to move quicker....who knows. For now we plan for longer time.... just in case.
I love south too but in winter. Summer is just too hot there. If we want to live there all year round than we need to look for cooler temperatures in summer months. Therefore going up the country makes more sense.
Did I missed anything...hope not.

ElizabethUk

Sorry for misspellings.....typing from the mobile phone

liveaboard

You must look at Aljezur / southern coastal Alentejo.
The weather here near the coast is ideal; land costs much less than the southern coast, but more than the north.
There are even quintas with sea view and access to irrigation water.
Check it out.

Red Eric

Hi Elizabeth and welcome to the forum from me

Just thought I'd chip in here as a "northerner". I'm inland about 40k from Viana do Castelo, where the winter weather is a mixed bag depending on the year. Not usually continually grey - we get quite a lot of sunny days and the daytime temperatures can be quite warm but the difference between daytime high and nighttime low can vary by around 20C (fine days usually = frosty nights). We also get snow on the hills at some point most winters - just had some, in fact (very early this year), which puts quite a chill on the wind when it's present. The snowline doesn't usually come down to the level of the towns around here though. Some years it can be quite rainy throughout but it's never continuous - even so a wet winter's a bit tedious.

Can't really advise about property prices. A lot of people, when they start investigating properly, seem surprised that it's not cheaper but then a lot of people who don't live here think it's much cheaper up north. From my point of view, moving from London, it seemed very reasonable indeed for a modest 3 bedroomed property with a bit of land (not 10 acres though ) around it and very handily placed for town, links to airport etc.

Yes there's plenty of pasture round here and lots of places to buy animal feed etc. Last time I bought a bale of hay it cost around 3€ but it may vary slightly according to year, who you buy from and what quantity you're purchasing.


One frequent misconception is that the south of Portugal is much hotter than the north in the summer but in fact the temperatures off the coast can be very hot anywhere in Portugal.

With regard to National Parks, there is only one in Portugal and that's the Peneda-Gerês, very near to where I live. Much of it is quite rugged and mountainous but there are some villages in there. And some lakes and lots of wildlife and forested areas and Garrano horses.

Ponte de Lima's not too far from the Park and there's a bit of horsey activity around there, including an annual international show with dressage competition and showjumping. There are also a couple of businesses in the district doing equine-related holidays and other stuff. This one, for example, in Arcos de Valdevez Quinta do Fijó

Until now there's not been a lot of visible tourism in this area. A big influx in July and particularly August when Portuguese emigrants and their descendants return for their annual holidays. However, Porto airport has been receiving more and more visitors year on year and there's a bit more activity generally than there used to be around and about and off peak season. A lot of new or renovated hotel accommodation has been created in the past couple of years around here, too. I don't know what's occasioned that but perhaps there's an anticipated boost to the region for some reason that's not immediately apparent to me yet.

I would definitely recommend a visit - plenty to see and do, a good sprinkling of towns and villages, a few good-sized cities and loads of stunning scenery.

macliam

I would agree with Eric - but then I find something special about most of Portugal. However, the land is far more utilised and fragmented in the North (a result of previous history), whereas in the Alentejo there are vast open spaces and land is generally cheap - I have about 7 acres around my house and it's smaller than my neighbours (but then, I live in the sticks!)

The Alentejo is horse country - you might like to visit the Coudelaria at Alter do Chão in the Alto Alentejo, an 800 hectare stud farm (almost 2000 acres) founded by the king in 1748 to breed Lusitano horses (see https://www.visitportugal.com/en/NR/...4-FF9672FC7D53) and Equus Ourique is a British-run riding school in the Baixo Alentejo - you can find them online.

ElizabethUk

Guys what a fantastic feedbacks. I trully came to the right place. Red Eric and Mac Liam thank you so so much. Bags of info in your posts. OK. We probably going to be quite rual. What I understand is than that weather at the coast much friendlier than in land and we probably will need to stick to that. I personally don't mind cold and my horse either. We both deal better with +8 than +38. So thanks Eric for the explanation. North is still on the cards than and we will visit. Alentejo sounds lovely so I will check it out too. What I plan to do with my business is offer trial rides, natural horsemanship, holistic retreat .....that kind of stuff. Not for everyone but I see the niche in the market .....still. I have a bit of a knowledge in hospitality so I am really up for it . Therefore I am not looking for being close to riding schools or mass equine places or on the suburbs of big towns/ tourists hotspots. Airport connection will be important. But thanks environment for hacking, land and attractiveness of the surrounding is very high on my list.
It looks like I might have to go 2x to Portugal this year....once north and once south......poor me

Mac and Mabel

Hi. We live in the Santarém region. We brought our horse from the UK with us to Portugal. Lots of things to think about. Hay around here about 3€ per small bale and you will need to feed it as the main/only forage all year round, unless you have acres and acres. Bear in mind grass over here only grows enough for one hay cut per year, rather than 2 or 3 cuts in UK, and the sward is much more sparse. You've probably heard that Santarém is a good area for horses because of Golega, which is known as the Capitulo do Cavalo, but if you practice natural horsemanship I doubt the management of the horses around there would suit you (or them your business). You need to consider availability of a good, modern-thinking specialist equine vet and an acceptable farrier/trimmer. We learned in UK to trim our horse's hooves ourselves (kept barefoot) as we realised this could be a problem, the traditional farriery/trimming of the Portuguese being very different and uncomfortable looking to our eyes (high heels (for a taller horse!) pedal bone obviously pointing downwards unnaturally). We can concur re temperatures - you will get high 30s/into 40s anywhere in Portugal. Santarém can often be a hotspot. We had many, many days this summer in the 40s but somehow with free choice shelter my boy (and I!) managed. They will acclimatise; he was like a hairy bear in October when the weather was still in the 20s! Other things - ticks more prevalent here than in UK and of course can carry diseases, including equine, that UK horses are unlikely to have yet been exposed to, meaning they have no immunity and will suffer worse. In all honesty, I can't see there being much call in the local population for livery, and even those that could afford it or have need of it, I see little appreciation of natural horse management. You would need to aim at expats and holidaymakers for either livery or riding services. That said, there is a natural horsemanship group in Portugal, something like APEN (Associação Portugues de Equitação Natural) - they have a Facebook page. Lots of things to think about. Good luck and feel free to pm me if you have more questions.

ElizabethUk

Hiya.

So much info. Many thanks for that.
My boy is barefoot too. He is just transitioning. Doing great. I am learning how to trim too. For nose just rasping but hopefully will be self sufficient in that area in couple of years. We are going bitless too. In fact , I am a total horse hippie. My boy lives on the track 24/7 with add lib hay and he loves it. Hoping to continue that in Portugal. I have heard that Portugal.....like lots other countries....is very "traditional "regarding horse keeping. Well I hope there will be few more people like me there, when we will eventually move. I will check the FB of APEN. Thanks for that. I am hoping we will be OK with temperatures. I think my horse will like it moreally than me. I will need to speak to a vet here regarding ghetto advice on ticks. I lived in Poland before so I have some experience with them....and different types of horse flys. My current equine dentist do travels abroad for work and he is happy to visit me once or twice a year so this is a big help till I find right person. I am a bit worried about a vet but hopefully I will find someone decent.
I have a few more questions but let me sleep on it andoes I will pm you tomorrow. Many thanks and good night.

GeniB

Love your enthusiasms Elizabeth. You have definitely caught the same bug that has bitten most of us on here.
As you have ,by your own admission. bag's of time to make this decision. Your not planning to move to a popular tourist area where prices are going up. I suggest you start by simple visiting a few of the existing equestrian establishments and finding out how the land lies in Portugal. If your worried about language difficulties you might try one in the Algarve first where it's likely to be run by an English speaking person. If not there are some very famous one's around Lisbon you can visit.
The climate does vary quite a lot in Portugal .The further north you go the more likely you are to find both good pasture and water. Not always a given though .The Alentejo i believe can be much hotter and direr than the Algarve .For such a largish plot of land you will need access to water. Sounds like you need to do a search for an existing manage.
I am only familiar with the Algarve .There are riding schools here,people do keep horses. It can get hot 38/40 has been recorded.However we have the Atlantic breeze most of the times unlike the heat and humidity of parts of inland Spain it is a very comfortable climate. and is certainly warmer than the north in the winter,i.e. rare to see horses with blankets on etc.
I think you will find obtaining hay fairly expensive throughout the whole of Portugal due to the climate ,but then I don't know about these things.
if it were me. I would split the country up and visit all area's over the next few yrs. You have the advantage of knowing exactly what you want. Just a matter of finding it... Good luck and happy hunting in this beautiful country

ElizabethUk

Thank you for all your kind words. There is so much things to learn and consider. I know that I have years to go but if we find a right property in two years time we will consider of buying it and keeping it for another few years as a holiday home/ project. I won't need a school or stables. What I needid will be a house with a potential and land with some natural water going true it. First we will start traveling more around the Portugal to see what's on offer. Can't wait.