appman999

The law regarding condominium management is contained in Decreto-Lei n.º 47344 , Civil Code Annex, Book III, Title II, Chapter VI, Articles 1414-1438

With regard to decisions made at meetings refer to articles 1432 and 1433.

chislenko

Thanks appman will give that a good read tomorrow. Wrong end of an afternoon at the local to take it all in today. 🍺🍺

SanDiegogirl

If a meeting is to be held, doesn't the organisation send out an Agenda as to what will be discussed? Especially if a subject whereby additional fees may be required?
My HOA has to provide an Agenda at least 7 days prior to the meeting.

macliam

It has not been standard in any Portuguese "assembly" that I have been invited to attend. I don't see anything in law to preclude it (not that I'm any expert), but it doesn't happen - and the fact it happens elsewhere is irrelevant. Portuguese law imposes structure and conditions on condominiums and other organizations, to ensure that there is standardisation and that key provisions are not left to the whim of the administrators. The downside of this is firstly that constitutional law is slow to change and secondly that administrators tend to focus on compliance rather than improvements.

However, chislenko may be able to get advance notice of the agenda from the condiminium administrators when he talks to them (given it's not precluded by something else) and, who knows, that may mark a change that others can follow. If he gets advance notice, he may feel more able to assign a proxy. On the other hand, my experience of Portuguese bureaucracy suggests that he's unlikely to be succssful, unless they are actually compelled to change their current way of doing things.

chislenko

Macliam.

In my previous email discussions with the Condo Company the chap is very good at reciting chapter and verse of Portuguese Law that favours his argument but very intransigent to change / implement change that may help myself and other owners in the same boat within our condo.

On that basis I don't hold out much hope and basically mirrors what you have said about the Bureaucracy!

chislenko

Appman, for some reason when I click on that link it only goes up to article 1431 and doesn't show 1432 & 1433.

appman999

That fooled me for a bit too. At the top of that page on the left you will see a 1 and 2 which are page numbers.

Press on 2 for 1432 and up.

chislenko

Thanks, see it now.

macliam

"Been there, got the T-shirt".- the plus side of the Portuguese system is that it ensures ALL condos must cover the bases, the other side is that few administrators are willing to do anything more.... so I'm not surprised.

I couldn't see anything in the quoted part of the law that would constrain the condo - but nothing to compel them to help you either... There is always the chance that other, more general decrees impact - but that's why lawyers exist! PS - the link to the second page is less than obvious!

However, it still may be worth having a conversation (after steeling yourself for a refusal!), because they should have an agenda prepared, so it's hardly a stretch.....

Good luck - let us know the outcome

scrubbedexpat142

I find it incredible that you can be demanded to pay additional monies without a full & proper procedure. Got to be worth a challenge, maybe refuse and let them prove (legally) the legitimacy of their position?

macliam

As long as the decision complies with the legal requirements, it constitutes a "full & proper procedure" under Portuguese law - so what case would you have?

A meeting is constituted, the expenditure is discussed, there is a vote... and there is the legal right to assign a proxy if the owner cannot attend and there . It does not answer chislenko's issues, but there is a legal process. There is also a limited right to appeal, for challenge and arbitration, available to joint owners, but that does seem to be focused on non-compliance with the published rules, rather than dissatisfaction with decisions.

chislenko

I think it also shows a failure to adapt a flexible strategy which many other companies have put in place during the last two years where in person meetings have not been allowed.

macliam

Yes, I had thought about playing the Covid card to your advantage...... but, so far, I've found it always seems to work against me, rather than for me

It's frustrating that many compaines are no better at replying to (or even acknowledging) emails than they were pre-Covid........

Score76

Could you perhaps attend via Zoom if not able to attend in person?

chislenko

Option not offered.

I am in the process of penning an email to the boss of the company in which I will put across measures which could be implemented to bring him into the 21st century 😉