londonescapee

This happens in the UK too though. There was a horrendous article (or programme? can't quite remember) about Newquay just before I left where parents had given their children who had just passed their GCSEs giving them huge bottles of rum/vodka etc saying that at least if they gave the alcohol to them they would know where it had come from. In what universe does that send out the right message

Sadly drink abuse in younger generations is getting worse because it is seen as a rite of passage and that doesn't matter which Westernised country you are in. It wasn't so long ago that I spent most of my existence focusing on when my next night out was or maybe it was Don't think much has changed in the last 10 years or so.

Genesis

[QUOTE=squarepants;8873258]
When my son was turning 14, another parent told me to buy him and his mates a couple of crates of beer so they could 'go and celebrate'. He thought it was a perfectly normal suggestion, boys will be boys and it's all part of growing up etc.

QUOTE]

Well what a twat of a father/mother they must be. Crates of lager for 14 years olds??????????????????????? A very big WTF?????????????????

Kentish Lass

Totally agree with your comments but NZ also has a very easy going attitude towards kids smoking dope. I'm often told that 'they all try it'.

Genesis

Also totally gormless. Maybe we should change the ledgend from 'NZ the island of the long white cloud' to 'NZ the island of usless parents?' Of course there are exceptions to the latter but every day I spend in this country makes me realise why it has soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many problems. And it does.

Kentish Lass

Yes ...terrible problems with drink, drugs,domestic abuse, suicides and road deaths. Others will say that these are problems experienced by a lot of countries BUT there are only 4 million people here and in relation to that these are huge issues here. Plus the attitude towards all of these is very blase.

Genesis

Hmm, if my every day hamster wheely life was not so good here or the kids were not so happy OR if Kate's career was not going as well as it is, I think I might just leave NZ. But is Oz really any better? I would certainly never return to the UK or europe..I guess it really is all about shit and buckets and I do prefer NZ's bucket to pretty much anywhere else. Fortunately I can avoid most of the above and all NZ's other shite and be proactive about them not happening to my kin..BUT the road deaths one is pretty much out of my hands AND the one that worries me the most.

Justcol

tell me to sod off if i'm out of place but have you had experiance of this.
I notice from other posts in other threads that you have very strong views on
driving related stuff.

londonescapee

That's quite a sweeping generalisation to make for a nation of (just) over 4 million people. For example, yes NZ does proportionally have a higher rate of male suicide than some other western nations (although it is on a par with Germany) this is probably due to the fact that they feel unable to communicate properly rather than because it is so goddam awful here. There was an interesting report published back in 2005 from the University of Otago commissioned by the government because they are worried about the prevelance. Statistics can be bent and twisted to suit whatever discussion.

Interesting comment you make with regards the blase-ness. We talked about some of these issues at work the other day and I'd hardly call the reaction of the parents there blase, in fact quite the opposite.

For other readers who might think they are about to set foot into a lawless, drug ridden, gun-toting, gangster-driven den of iniquity - no it is not awful here at all it's just different and you can either adapt to that/want to adapt or you can't/won't.

And on that note, I'm off to sit on the beach and eat some kumura chups from the local chippy and enjoy this beautiful evening. It's quite nice to do that and not have to dodge all the empty beercans and needles that we used to have in Brighton.

dannigirl

Genesis - I think that comment about parenting is a bit out of order. I work in social services in London and can assure you that Britain has all the same problems as NZ. Yes, there are social problems in NZ, and everything that can be done to support parents and families should be done! What cracks me up about Britain is that people can ignore the "underclass" and pretend that poverty doesn't exist, bad parenting doesn't exist, Baby P doesn't exist - because it doesn't enter into your everyday life until it hits the media. In NZ it is more in your face because there is not so much of a class system, the population means that it feels more "raw" so to speak. The problems and issues are the same but felt differently in the two different countries. Issues such as domestic violence, child abuse etc tend to get marginalised in the UK i.e because people on think it only happens in rough areas.

Are you counting yourself as a useless parent, since you live in NZ....and what are you doing to make your community safer, to help support other parents...or are you a fully paid up member of the "as long as it's not in my backyard" brigade?

londonescapee

welll said! I dare anyone to go hang out in pretty much any town/city centre in the UK on a Friday and Saturday night and not witness the sheer degeneration into chaos that it is and tell me that drink and drug abuse isn't a terribly large scale issue in the UK - disproportionately so. And heaven forbid that Bill and Sian talk about such a dirty subject as domestic violence on their sofa in the morning just in case we all choke on our cornflakes whilst getting ready to poddle off to our nice middle class jobs

oooh sorry to OP - I'm pretty sure Oz has very similar issues too.

Ahhh just think Genesis, you could be back in your beloved Northampton all over again wouldn't that be living hell all over again?

jennifer45

This lack of 'parenting skills' is not class based, nor is it socioeconomically based and neither is it based on culture. It either stems from a total couldn't care less/lazy attitude, or a 'bohemian freedom of expression' attitude, where any form of constraint is frowned upon, where lack of rules/ boundaries is common place, or it stems from parents, chasing the dream/the dollar/the lifestyle, both resulting, often in 'spoilt/ruined' demanding, off-spring, who have no respect for their parents/teachers or any authority, yet demand as of right the world to revolve around them.
The wealthy ones have everything money can buy, yet appear unable to enjoy themselves without upsetting others.They seldom create anything but mayhem, yet get great pleasure from destroying things.They are YOBS
Parents employ total strangers to 'Nanny" them for weekends, whilst they attend w/e functions.
They become bored and many turn to alcohol or drugs.
They are in need of help.
Those suffering depravity/abuse in the home often display a total lack of respect for society, its rules and develop a different set of mores based on their own experiences both in the home and through uncensored use of the internet. They are Yobs.
Both are from dysfunctional families.

Dannigirl, Yob culture exists in all classes. As well as in the underclasses, it flourishes well among the bourgeoisie of society and even among the the public schools of Eton, Harrow and Rugby
There has always been the deviants in all areas of society, but even you in your profession must have seen the increase over the years and must acknowledge the lack of parental responsibility amongst the very young, long before they terrorised their own parents.

George Orwell wasn't far off the mark.

Having made the above comments, I am glad to be a resident of NZ because I believed here there was a greater chance of avoiding the family meltdown seen in areas of UK.
Now I'm not so sure, but I live in hope.
NZ is still reasonably small- Miscreants/deviants/spoilt brats stand out.
The ones around here are from very wealthy families, have every latest gismo going, go to top schools/colleges, yet are obviously very unhappy. They bully other children, they show little or no respect to their own property (easy come- easy go) let alone that of others.
The most telling aspect is that 2 out of 3 are from the UK and the 3rd is of Dutch parentage. All cases both parents have very demanding jobs, which produce high incomes.
If it weren't for the fact that I live among them, I would see this as a text book setting.

They could be encouraged to enjoy and follow a much more rewarding lifestyle, but it would cost time not money. Time is something a lot of upwardly mobile parents can't afford.

NZ has so much to offer in different leisure activities which are totally free and not all geared around sport.
I have great hope for the youth of NZ.

It's the parents that cause me concern. Many have abdicated their parental responsibilities.

dannigirl

I agree with much of what you say! I totally agree that parenting skills or lack thereof is not totally dependant on socio-economic status, or culture, or class....however I can't remember the last time, if ever, when I have worked with a a middle class parent. Child abuse and bad parenting does span all classes, all cultures, all socio-economic groups but as you quite rightly point out the middle class bad parenting is seen as bohemian and bourgeoisie (Sp?). Sorry, I did have a bit of a rant about the underclasses here, mostly because that is what my job involves and people seem to ignore it if it doesn't affect their life. I totally acknowledge that bad parenting takes many forms, just most are not held to account in any way. I was probably just taking it too personally regarding the comment about NZ being the land of bad parenting - I am a typical kiwi and take things far too literally - my bad

ExKiwilass

Danni I don't think you need to apologize. I think you made a good point.

dannigirl

I still stand by my points. I do believe that here is a strong link between poverty, deprivation and bad parenting (and no, that is not to say all poor people are bad parents!) It means some people do not have many choices in life, nor the skills or sometimes motivation to make any positive changes. Jennifer45 made some good points about the dysfunction in the middle classes too.

I apologized because sometimes I think I might come over a bit dramatic! Youngest child syndrome you see....

ExKiwilass

Have you read any Gordon NEufeld? he's pretty interesting on the topic of out of control kids.