ExKiwilass

Well, first of all, if you read any history you would know that they didn't start at the same point at the same time. Australia was a penal colony decades before NZ even became a colony. They also had very different histories with the indigenous people. I personally think a lot of Australian 'confidence' (which comes across as arrogance outside OZ, FYI) comes from the ease with which they took over the land from the completely outgunned nomadic Aborigines, who were never a serious threat.

If you look at NZ history, the NZ wars - the Maori fought back and gave the settlers a good run for their money, etc and Maori remain to this day a far stronger political force, not to mention numerically, in NZ than the Aborigines in Oz. They have far more clout. They like to regularly remind the Pakeha of the wrongs of the past. There is a complicated relationship between pakeha and Maori that I think has effected the way the country has developed. And it's very definitely a relationship. It's unique to NZ, I haven't found anything similar in other colonized countries. Perhaps that reality has made us more insular, I don't know. I know that I rarely came across Australians who gave much thought to Aborigines when I lived there, let alone felt guilty, whereas for me and my generation, the Treaty, the difficulty of working out how to redress past wrongs, was a big part of our psyche.

I also think the open borders policy has meant many talented kiwis have ended up going to Australia. This has been to the detriment of NZ, imo. It becomes a chicken and egg situation.

and 2. Australia has mining and minerals, making it wealthier = more opportunities = see above. Like Canada, it has resources. I think it ultimately comes down to that.

Is Australia more vibrant? I found it pretty shallow and crass. I guess it's subjective.

OzzieGunner

[QUOTE=chippy64;8695964]
This is correct however most of the attacks have been by fellow new immigrants. Hence the Police claiming the attacks are not racially motivated as generally carried out by African or IndoChinese ethnic gangs. I personally dont understand why the Police claim it is not racially motivated.

Justcol

TBH in the grand scheme of things "a couple of decades" doesnt make a whole lot of difference.
Why did i come to nz? because i wanted to give it a go and experiance what it had to offer
which sadly i'm finding out isnt very much. A view is a view is a view. seen one seen em all. I'm not that impressed.
I have more friends here than back in the uk but i'm not the slightest bit interested in the "kiwi way", Maori rights or rugby
so that excludes me from a lot of things. I dont like slow. Slow is dull and boring.
I like places that can offer entertainment, places to go, places to see, things to do, choice, variety.
I like to visit places and towns that dont all look exactly the same. I like to go to the pub and not have to leave at 9pm
because they want to close up.
I like beaches with things to do when you get there not just looking at the beach.
If i have to live in a house made of tissue paper i would prefer it to be somewhere a little warmer.
Having said that, strange as it seems i'm happier here than i have been for years
Maybe i'm just to much of a nomad to settle anywhere perminantly.

Browner_

I'd say thats quite likely, you dont seem to know much about what its like.

I agree with the original comment that "NZ is full washed out people with little opinion on anything.". Thats because they dont know anything about anything. Apart from beer and rugby. And sheep in rural areas.

Colandros said "How did nz fall so far behind oz when they were basically starting from the same point at the same time." When I was a kid watching the NZ commonweath games in the 70's , I imagined NZ as a small version of Australia. God knows what it was like then, its backward and dull enough even now. It really does your head in after about 3 months.

jmh

Great post. Wasn't Australia settled at least a century before NZ? The British colonial attitude changed quite a lot in that time too. Those of us born and raised in NZ are aware of nuances that expats often aren't. No disrespect intended. I had the same ignorance of the UK when I arrive 25 years ago and I have learnt a lot since then.

Stormer999

Perhaps you really are a City boy at heart, you say NZ dosn't have much to offer but perhaps THAT is everything.....

Bo-Jangles

No, there was very little in it. The early arrivals, certainly missionaries and whalers were here in NZ in the early 1790s. The first Aussie colony was established in 1787 and the initial fleet of convicts arrived in Aussie in 1788.

I'm not buying the story around the special 'relationship' between Maori and Pakeha either, because very little desire to 'right the wrongs', nor any sensitivity towards Maori is evident among any every day Pakeha that I have come across. Perhaps in political circles yes there has been some sensitivity in the latter 25 to 30 years, after much protestation. The Waitangi Land tribunals were introduced in 1977, along with the recognition of Te Reo as an official language and realisation that there are specific Maori issues around health, education and poverty. There's still one heck of a long way to go to !

Justcol

As long as its seen as white mans bullshit things will never change.
The poor and the ignorant will breed even poorer and more ignorant children.
The govt should have told the iwi's to shut the **** up and got on with building
a country that everyone could benefit from.
What could they have done? waved a few flags? ignored the law?
Plenty do that anyway when it suits them.
Instead the govt now pays out millions that just gets squanderd.
One iwi used its money to buy a the warriors! a bloody rugby team!!
how is that helping other taunui to climb out of poverty
special relationship!! crap there is no relationship just a country full of guilt
ridden brain washed idiots happy to throw there tax dollars away and
manipulating iwi leaders getting rich of the backs of those they claim to represnt.
If the struggle was about equal rights i would support it .
I've marched for anti racism and against the poll tax. I've supported striking
workers and human rights but this is only about greed off the backs of the
poor thats what makes me angry.

ExKiwilass

It was a figure of speech, FFS.



If you really cared, which I doubt you do, you could look it up.

ExKiwilass

Nail, head. and Karma'd.

ExKiwilass

And I'd say you are doing the classic immigrant thing, of seeing what's going on in NZ through the lens of your experiences in your home country, instead of seeing NZ as it is. What the hell does the poll tax or racism in the UK have to do with NZ's situation? Oh, that's right. NOTHING. It comes across as pretty arrogant, frankly. As JMH nicely tried to point out, there's nuances there that you (general immigrant you) are probably not getting.



It has nothing to do with greed off the backs of the poor. But, if you are determined to be bigoted and to think in black and white, instead of being humble and accepting there's stuff you can learn, there's no point in arguing with you.

ExKiwilass

Come and live in Canada or Australia and then we'll discuss.

If there were truly no desire to right wrongs, there would have been no Waitangi Tribunal, no recognition of Te Reo, no kohanga reo, and still an active policy of assimilation. Actions speak louder than words. And yes, there is far more of a relationship between us than I've seen in the other colonized countries I've lived in. For instance, not one native language is an official language in Canada. Just as an example. I have had very little opportunity to meet Aboriginal people here. They're just not present in the same way in society as the Maori are in NZ - i.e. they make up a far smaller part of the population where I am. And I could go on, but this isn't about Canada.

I stand by what I said. I would never say it means that all Pakeha are thrilled and dancing in teh streets at what's going on, or not bigoted - that's just naive. Nor does it mean that race relations are fab. And I'll go further and say judging the work that's been done by how bigoted or not the local pakeha are in whatever small part of NZ you live in is missing the point. Should I judge the UK's multiracial society by the chav losers over there? Or by it's laws and policies?

ExKiwilass

There is big difference between whalers and missionaries and the founding of an actual colony. Sorry.

Justcol

you can judge the uk by whatever means you like i dont live there anymore
just as you dont live here anymore.
The phrase "get over it" springs to mind when it comes
to racial issues in NZ.

BEVS

OK. I'm interested to read more about this .

What is it that you are aware of that I am not?

For a basic background about me. I've lived here in NZ for 6 years now. There is a fair mix of all sorts of peoples around me and I mix with all of them. I have ears , eyes and I listen.