luvwelly

This is kinda my point...yes the British are very tolerant on the whole....such that even the ex-immigrants themselves become intolerant to some extent of newcomers.....why is this? Because it's basically human nature to fear the unknown.

How many times have you heard someone ignorant make a racist remark and then say to the person present who might be offended by this...'Oh but I didn't mean you...you're different...you're one of us...sorry'
I've heard this countless times working in offices in London, and I too have cut people off for making racist remarks at social gatherings...how dare they presume that just because I am the same race as them that I will share their repugnant view?
Governments and I think the EU as a whole need to take this into account and devise fair immigration policies which are beneficial to all and maybe there are other ways we can help the recently -joined members of the EU get up on their feet more quickly economically.

If you look at other EU countries, racism/immigration has been a serious political issue for a long time - how long ago was it that every socialist in France had to swallow their pride and vote for Jaques Chirac to stop Jean Marie le Pen becoming President? Remember Pim Fortuyn in the Netherlands? The neo-nazis in Germany.

In the UK we seemed to see the National Front off in the 70's with Rock against racism and the anti-nazi league...all good stuff but the British political system is good at keeping extremists out owing to its unproportional nature....this I think is the only reason the UK has not had its own Jean Marie le Pen...it doesn't really have anything to do with our inherent tolerance....we should be tolerant because under 'Empire' we used to colonise and plunder most of the rest of the world....but are we really any better? Not sure.

I haven't lived in the UK (although I have visited) since 2004 so I don't know whether all the anti-Polish stuff on here is a 'storm in a teacup' or whether the EU/Government has misjudged things and services are indeed at breaking point (I suspect not). It used to be asylum seekers at Calais that everyone used to go on about ad nauseum....that was solved somehow wasn't it?

I've heard 'seemingly nice' Kiwis at social gatherings here make negative remarks about Asian immigrants to NZ and yet strangely things do seem to be harmonious between Maori and Kiwi to a greater extent than I expected, for those of you wanting to come to NZ to escape these issues at home.

It is indeed despicable to say you don't want your kids to go to school with Polish people but the far-right can use the 'political correctness of the middle class' in these issues to their advantage. You have to make sure you walk the talk....how many of you try to get your kids into the lowest performing school in your locality? That presumably is the one with all the spaces open for the new arrivals...the better ones are already full. Food for thought...not in my backyard etc etc

Here's to everyone living in peace wherever they may find themselves.

mandy77

Blimey who opened this can of worms??

What's gonna happen is this. The immigrants, Poles mostly, are going to take over the UK, everybody from the UK will come over to New Zealand and all the Kiwi's will emigrate, to Oz or Europe, at least the educated ones anyway

Good points made luvwelly, of course there is racism in every country, or maybe in some cases racism is too strong a word, maybe uneducated or misguided would be a better description.

When I was over in Poland, the ppl there looked at me like I had two heads because I looked and talked differently, this made me very uncomfortable. In that part of Poland, they do not have a lot of visitors, especially English, so I don't think they were being racist, but then I didn't speak Polish so they could have been calling me all the names under the sun

I used to manage a bar in a bit of a dodgy area in East London and there was a big group of regulars in there, one of them a mixed race bloke and they used to all do exactly this all the time and it used to make me laugh how hypocrytical they were. At least if you are going to be racist at all, have the courage of your convictions and be consistant even if that means sombody challenging what you say and some ppl being angry, as of course they will.

Another great one is I'm not racist but......

I really don't believe that immigrants are straining the Uk infrastructure to breaking point. The NHS relies heavily on immigrants and regarding the schools, if there were better schools all round then there wouldn't need to be all this competitiveness that there is in the UK and more children would have places. That comes down to several things, government defo, but also it wouldn't hurt for more parents of children over here to take some responsibility for their own children and help them to learn, it's not just immigrant children who don't know how to read, write, talk English you know.

I suppose on his way to these factories he passes the masses of Brits, queuing and banging on the door of these factories demanding to be given these jobs. highly unlikely methinks

I have been unemployed before and could not do that type of work, the thought didn't even cross my mind. And I didn't claim benefits either, just before anyone jumps on me.

Anyway everybody, untwist your knickers and breathe. Best wishes to all, no matter what nationality, ethnicity, religion, opinion you are.

Mandy xx

Kiwiprincess

I see one problem with Polish people immigrating to the UK and one problem only:

The girls are really pretty. This means that if you are an average kiwi swamp donkey girl like me it is SO MUCH HARDER to get male attention in bars!!!

Sorry, thought I would lower the tone/lighten things up there

luvwelly

It certainly needed brightening up but just thought we might as well explore it thoroughly once this topic had reared its ugly head.

Heavenlyscent

I am probably going to upset most of the UK residents now, I believe that there should be NO benefit system at all. if you don't work or pay into the system then you don't get anything back. We will not then see 10 million coming into our country, but 10 milion leaving.

My grandad had only one leg, he was not allowed a wooden one until he was 21 years old, there was no benefit ststem for him, he married and had 6 kids, lived and worked through the depression, not a penny from the state did he ever receive or want to receive. He was proud to work for his family. He became a welder in spite of all his disabilities, it just goes to show that the older generation had better values.

I am off to Krakow and Auschwitz with my husband in March. I am a passionate historian and will see for myself what Poland is actually like. I have spent 6 years living in Germany, when younger. I am sure if you don't work in Poland you don't get money. I will acknowledge what all our soldiers went through during WW2 and get frustrated that so many of them lost their lives, for what we have in the Uk today!

Sorry don't get me going on Discriminaton/Racism. I interviewed so many people in New Zealand, from Docotrs to Social workers, to kiwi, British, South African, Asian and Maoris and it is the worst country that I have ever visited where discrimination is totally on view for all to see. I have visited many, many countries.
I have had my rant, karma to all

saveme

I've got mixed feelings about racism. On the one hand I'm amazed at the change in attitudes from the 60's and 70's. I routinely used language then that I would be ashamed to use now. My workplace is a 'League of Nations' and I've become friends with people from all over the world. Just the other week I got talking to a guy from Cameroon. I heard him talking French which is his native language and he's happy to help me with my own French. He was also delighted when I told him about a news item I'd heard on the radio about pygmies in Cameroon being given hand held satellite devices to record trees in danger of illegal logging. (sorry that sentence is far too long)

On the other hand, I hate the way that 'racism' continues to be a weapon with which to silence anyone who has a contrary view about immigration and race. i.e. if you are not in favour of unrestricted immigration you are a Nazi.

My late father was in this category which I found somewhat ironic considering his WW2 service - more than five years overseas on active service in France, the Middle East, Italy and Germany.

His reward when he became ill with Alzeimers was to have his assets stripped at a rate of £630 per week to pay for his care in a home.

Just on the subject of better values of the older generations which I think I saw mentioned - well, they were imposed from above. I think of the Jarrow Crusade for instance.

Dave

ps unusually serious there!

uk+kiwi

[QUOTE=luvwelly;5896453]

'Oh but I didn't mean you...you're different...you're one of us...sorry'

You have to make sure you walk the talk....how many of you try to get your kids into the lowest performing school in your locality? That presumably is the one with all the spaces open for the new arrivals...the better ones are already full. QUOTE]




- that top line is one my Aunty says (who my aforementioned Grandmother lives with!)

Re: your second point, it is extremely valid and I agree with your sentiment. But I would answer 'no', which has nothing to do with racism (the topic on this thread). The lowest performing schools in my locality are no different in terms of the race of the children than the top performing ones. Actually there is one school that attracts a significant minority (10-20%?) of Islamic children and I would have loved for my daughter to have gone to this school since it was my favourite, but I knew we wouldn't get in so did not choose it as my first choice. So she has gone to the top performing all bells and whistles very middle class one that Ofsted loves and is on our doorstep.

School choices are very personal and highly emotive for some people. I met someone at my local Gym once who was sending her son to private school, yet lived in a council flat. She was a single parent who didn't work. I am not sure where the money for this education came from (none of my business but I recall her mentioning parental help come to think of it), yet it never occured to me that someone in council accomodation could afford this luxury. We all have different priorities and make different choices.

gina and danny

hi

i havent read through all of this thread but on the kids and education part, i think if a kid is bright and willing to learn then they will do good whichever school they attend whether it being a low performance or high,
i also seen on normandales school webisite ( a school with a decile of 10) this comment.so it seems them with a high decile arent necesarily the best.

Decile Rating
Normandale School is decile 10. This is simply a figure used by the Government for funding purposes and is mostly determined by the affluence of the community a school is in (i.e. average incomes). It means that we are in the 10% of wealthiest communities in the country. It has nothing to do with the success of a school.
Unfortunately for us, being decile 10 means we get the lowest level of funding and are expected to raise significant amounts of money ourselves to keep the school running. [Note – on average, decile 10 schools of our size raise 13% of their income. In the last 5 years we have managed to raise between 6 – 9%. Fundraising is a significant issue for us.]

mandy77

I presume you mean a large chunk of Brits as well

Not everbody is tactful, sensitive or fair when it comes to immigrants though. There is a fine line between opinion and racism and many ppl cross it. If you have a view then you should of course express it but nobody should be hurt or dicriminated against because of where they are from or what you think

What about unrestricted immigration? I don't want that, i've agreed with this several times but is the fault of the government not the immigrants.

What I objected to was ppl singling out the Poles all the time as a reason for the problems in the UK and ppl saying they would not send their children to school with Polish children etc. That clearly crosses the line of what is acceptable opinion into racism.

Hope you enjoy your trip to Poland. I think it would take a long time and several visits to see for yourself what Poland is like, it is as different from north to south, east to west as any place you will go to. My husband used to always go to other parts of Poland on holiday and says that in many places, you could be in a different country. I came away with very mixed feelings.

And no, ppl who don't work in Poland don't get money except some small kind of child benefit that is no way near enough, there is no other help. Don't really know if this is the answer though as one of the places we went to, there were mothers who were known to sell themselves just to feed their kids. This of course begs the question, why have kids? But it was the back of beyond and devout catholic.

I do think that it should be made harder in the UK for benefits and immigration though but ppl should still be nice.

All the best

Mandy xx

Heavenlyscent

Hi
Yes i meant all the Brits aswell.

We went to India a few years back and witnessed poverty in the extreem. People (whole families) living on the street with just a tarpauline to cover them. If they didn't get work they didn't eat. What a good incentive, a lot of British 3rd gerneration Doleies need.

The reason the Poles are getting such a bad press is because they were one of the last countries to join the EU and there are so many coming to Britain at the same time. Most are lovely people, who want to come here learn English and Work.

I was in Turkey a few years back and it was the Russian women who were influxing Turkey and selling their bodies to send money home. Turkey itself is very harsh, again no work, no food. The children work and send some money home to suport their parents to live, even if they are married.

I look forward to my trip to Poland and will go with an open mind. Thanks

bernie_k

you could say that. My wife and I are both psychiatric nurses and find ourselves in the same postion as you. The only saving grace is that we have posted our residency application today and we cannot wait to move

jleroux

Now I'm no rasict even if I was born and bred in South Africa before moving to the UK. Lmao I wonder how many of you read the 1st part of the sentence and 'went of course he is' and then read the 2nd part and thought 'o hell now I know he is'. To clear it up I'm not but I had to write this just to a joke about stereotyping people.

Anyway back on topic. Someone mentioned that there should be no benefits. I'm not to sure about it. I do feel very angry though about being a tax payer for the past 8 years that I have been living in the UK and the 1st time I need help from the system (due to being jobless) the system shows you how unfair it's weighted against normal taxpayers. If I was jobless and my wife was jobless then I could milk the system. Just because my wife still brings in barely enough to stop them taking the house (it's less than that to be honest) I can't receive help.

I asked the council for a discount on my tax, they said bring 3 months worth of paperwork to proof you have no income. I said fine I'll do that and then what would I get off my council tax when we're done. They said £20 off the £180 I pay. WTF!!!

That is why the people that know how the milk the system can and will and the normal people that can't will always have to pay for those who are a leech on soceity ad the goverment covers.

Sorry I just needed to vent.

saveme

You are punished for saving rather than spending. I mentioned my late father I think on an earlier post. He spent the last two months of his life in a Care Home and the charge was £630 per week (I think the Council or the Govt paid £120 towards that) but his savings would have been stripped all the way down to ? circa 20K ? and his home sold. That was his reward for fifty years of working including in the Army 1939-46. That will happen to me too, whether I stay in UK or move back to OZ and if I do go to OZ my UK State pension will be frozen at the rate when I leave UK.

Lexylou

God that is sooooooo funny!!! And soooo true!!

luvwelly

[QUOTE=uk+kiwi;5898621] I don't disagree at all with your comments on your second point...but it wasn't schools that were the issue...mixed nationality and and low performing schools don't necessarily belong together at all....what I meant was that it was one thing to be very politically correct and say everyone should be 100% happy to receive all newcomers to the UK when you are maybe not the one on the sharp end of the services having to deal with the extra strain (if there is any!)... this is the loophole the BSN exploits in traditionally working class labour-voting places such as Burnley for instance.....'not in my backyard so I'll go along with it quite happily' best sums it up I suppose. I probably shouldn't have mentioned schools as that's emotive in its own right.
Political principles are all fine and good 'everyone should use their nearest school' until suddenly you have kids yourself and then it's all open to question...that's my experience of it anyway lol!