pascalr

Not true in my opinion.

After living in nz you realise how GREAT Britain is, and how vital immigration is to a country.

Nz would improve dramatically if it opened it doors to another say 5 million? From where I'm not sure but this place needs something!

Nerine

NZ would improve dramatically if it attracted back all the Kiwis that have left. Can you imagine what all that OE and accumulated wealth would do for the country.

This has already been acknowledged and a campaign was launched a few years back to persuade Kiwis to return.

ginabridget

We're trying, we're trying, I'm a kiwi and when I do finally get back will I recognise the place now that it's full of foreigners ?

This thread is really good, really informative, I'm looking forward to getting to NZ and seeing what it's like with all the immigrants, rather than actually being the immigrant or 'bloody foreigner ' as I'm referred to in Lancashire.

Margaret Parkinson

Just out of curiosity where in Lancashire do you live. I am in Tyldesley which used to be in Lancashire but is now in Greater Manchester but I will always be a Lancashire lass.

mandy77

Hello all.

I am brand new to this site so first let me say it is nice to meet everybody. I have been reading on here for a couple of weeks but not written before.

Secondly, I just wanted to remark on a few comments on here regarding the Polish immigrants in UK.

My husband is Polish meaning that my children are half Polish and although I don't wish to upset anybody on here, I think it is wrong for ppl in Uk to say things about the Polish taking jobs, stealing benefits to send home to Poland, taking houses, lowering wages, taking over the country.

My husband and his father both work 60 hours a week to pay for their families, yes they get child benefit but why shouldn't they, they pay taxes on their wages just like anybody else. Polish ppl are prepared to work very hard, take any job and receive minimum wage unlike a lot of us brits. Also, I think that you would find that the ppl who drain the system and take the most advantage of the benefits in the UK are our own work-shy bunch, who don't want to work and still expect the state to pay for them, their kids, houses, bills etc.

Lastly, have any of you been to Poland? The grass is most defo not greener over there. I was shocked and very upset when I went over to south east Poland near the border with the Ukraine. There were squalid slums, kids running around in bare feet in mud in the middle of winter, ppl living in absolute poverty in dilapidated wooden huts that we wouldn't put our animals in, with no electricity or gas, no heating, just bales of straw built up around the home for insulation, nothing to eat sometimes but potatoes. THAT is hand to mouth existence. And there are places worse than that.

If you came from a place like that or your children were in a place like that would you say no to free child benefit from the UK?

To anybody in the UK who think this country is really bad, there are defo many many places worse than this, you should visit some of them to get things in perspective.

Anyway, sermon over. I don't usually go on long like that but it's a subject that's close to me. I am looking to move over to NZ before too long but not because I hate UK, more I just fancy a change of scenery.

Hope to be speaking to a few of you more in the future.

Mandy

Nerine

Hi Mandy and welcome to the forum, glad you decided to post, sending you some hello Karma.

Thanks for putting a different perspective on the lives of immigrants, most of us are just looking for something better out of life.

Archangel

Hi Mandy welcome to the forum. Thanks for putting your side across.

I am not here to point a finger and say this is wrong or that right.

My parents were invited over to work in England in the 50s because they couldn't fill jobs by the local population. During those days Blacks/Jews and irish were not allowed to claim benefits or council housing and were often shunned from private rental housing. Times were hard as they had next to nothing, I was born in the UK and as a child I was happy, I had many friends mainly Europeans, but as a first generation British I never really felt that I belonged. I have seen the changers with new immigrants arriving and yes I think on both sides ie; those born and bread and early immigrants there is a feeling of discontent about the changes, but with anything in life changes always brings challenges. I left because I felt disillusioned with things working long hours not enough time with my OH or son economic changes and so on, so 2 yrs ago we moved to NZ and life although it had its ups and downs has been fantastic, but it took a while to realise that it wasn't England that I was unhappy with, because it is a beautiful country. it was with the way my life had set into this continuous rut in England. Most people in NZ are friendly and yes it has a lot of problems just like everywhere else, but it is my piece of heaven. Its strange I feel more excepted here than I ever did in the UK but maybe thats just me and not the people. Much of the arguments on this site has been positive, but for those coming to NZ they need to be aware that they should come for them selves and as I think someone's already said for NZ. To all those looking to NZ come for the right reasons and then you'll realise the dream. Good luck all

plummyscum

Mandy,

Like I say - who can blame them.

The discussion should be framed around the notion of whether Poland should have been allowed into the EU in the first place given your comments about poverty and lack of equality with the social and economic conditions that exist in Poland even today.

Cheers,

SP

Lexylou

THank you for posting this. It is about time someone came on here and talked some sense about Polish people and immigration. It annoys the hell out of me when people start on about Polish people into the UK. If anyone who wants to work hard, pay taxes and wants to add the the UK then I have no problem with that at all.

I met a girl at a party recently that wanted to move out of Scotland because she didn't want her child going to school with polish children. I was really shocked and I instantly disliked her for saying this. I told her that she was not going to find a 'one nation' class room in NZ but she seemed to be stuck on the idea that she was not having her daughter at school with Polish children. I hope she does leave Scotland, I don't want my daughter at school with a family like hers. I do not tolerate that type of racism and that is what it is.

Thank you again Mandy and some karma on it's way. I hope those on this forum that have mentioned some things about 'Polish' people feel ashamed.

Avid

Couldn't agree more. There's a long history of Polish migration to the UK and it is utterly ridiculous that Polish people should be demonised.

The British are often seen as the drunken scum of Europe, what with jetting into countries on cheap flights for stag weekends (and the like) which makes it all the more ironic that they should be moaning about people coming into the UK to find work. Of course, it's fine for Brits to buy 'cheap' property in East Europe as investments/holiday homes but it's the end of the world if East Europeans decide to move to where the wages are better. Seems the EU should only exist to make British people feel wealthier than they really are.

Oh the hypocrisy!!

mandy77

Hello again.

If no other country were allowed in with a lower economy than the UK, there wouldn't BE an EU and if a country or a people aren't given the opportunity to improve, how is it supposed to get better? Should we have discounted any country who were poorer than us? Would not allowing Poland into the EU make British ppl want to take on the dirty, menial work, long hours, minimum wage? I think not. It is very unfair to single out one group, nation, or race of ppl to use as scapegoats for life being difficult. Opportunities are out there for anbody who chooses to take them.

The amount of times I have heard British ppl moan that they think it is very unfair that ppl in other countries regard us all as loud-mouthed, lager-swilling hooligans......Yes it IS very unfair to generalise.

Unfortunately, there are many of these ignorant, small-minded sheep, who do not actually know anybody Polish, anything about the actual facts or statistics of Polish immigration in the UK but who just blindly follow the herd, not thinking for themselves, just listening to others. Easy to see how Hitler was so successful isn't it??????????

Anyway, your girl is gonna be in for a shock isn't she? There are Polish ppl over in NZ as well as many other races/nationalities and in the not too distant future, I hope to be adding one more of the job-stealing, money-grabbing, country-hustling little critters and our inferior/guilty by descent/association children.

And anybody moving to another country should bear in mind that when that time comes, they will become the immigrants. Of course, they won't be taking jobs, getting benefits, running businesses, using the schools........... you get my drift.

Anway, hope you all have a good day and the sun shines for you all.

And thanks Nerine and Lexylou, here's some karma right back at ya.

Mandy xx

Lexylou

I quite agree. It really does annoy me. I am ashamed to be British most of the time, in fact I don't call myself British. I am Scottish and that is only a tiny % better.

Lexylou

Yes you can see exactly why Hitler was so successful. As I said before, they should be ashamed of their thoughts and the fact that they even uttered the words but even worse wrote them down on a public forum.

uk+kiwi

I have a Polish friend. She is a Management Accountant, so has a relatively high paying job. I enjoy her company and discussing the differences and similarities in our cultures.

Most of my friends however are English. But of my closest friends, one is a Kiwi, two are Welsh, two are English, one is Irish, one is South African and one is Nigerian. I think of this as being entirely normal, and totally separate from any agreement/objections I may have with UK politics including its immigration policy.

I agree with whoever said that it is British born people who are the main drain on our society. There are loads of Polish people where we live (mainly working in the restaurants), but I am quite sure none of them live in a council house and that most of them are in paid employment. I would bet money on the fact that the percentage of Polish immigrants into the UK claiming benefits (aside from child benefit as that is available to everyone) is less than British residents claiming benefits. But I may lose, who knows.

Racism is not a positive outlook. It is based on fear, misunderstanding and unacceptance of differences between people. Agree with Lexy that I have no time for it whatsoever. Although it simply reflects a lack of education and/or experience about cultural differences. I am sure most people would rather not be racist and feel guilty about expressing racist opinions.

Children who grow up in an environment where differences (skin colour, language, food eaten etc etc) are not tolerated, let alone celebrated, are likely to grow up as racists to some extent. In the same way that those brought up by parents who smoke have a higher chance of smoking than those who don't, parents who are poor at finance raise children who tend to be poor at finances etc etc etc.

I suppose this highlights the importance of education and our roles as parents (role model teachers) to our children. Why do ante-natal classes teach you SO much about every minute detail regarding pain relief in labour, positions for birth etc and not even mention the massive responsibilty that parents have? Oh yes, because the human race would rapidly become extinct!

We're out to celebrate Chinese New Year this weekend. How lucky we are to have such a rich life.

luvwelly

Hang on ladies, I am as politically correct as the next person but the simple fact remains that the whole of Poland (or any other country for that matter) can't come and settle in the UK anymore than the whole of the UK can settle in NZ & Oz.
The infrastructure in any country in health and education can't easily cope with it, if the numbers are too high in too short a time period. And it breeds unnecessary resentment and racist ill-will on the ground on both sides. Long-term it won't matter because the Poles will easily assimilate...the cultural differences (apart from language) are minimal and they are very hardworking.

I had a very nice Polish neighbour in the north of England in the 1970s, had a close British Polish friend in the last EU country I lived in ........I have nothing against Poles whatsoever BUT surely even within the EU it would be desirable to have some controls as to where people can work, live and claim benefits and in what timescale. I thought I'd read somewhere that the UK was thinking of adopting a 'green card' type system but maybe that was just for non-EU countries.

At the very least you could move to EU citizens having to have the means to support themselves/a job offer and be registered with the tax authorities....again in most other EU countries but not the UK, you have to register at the local Town Hall, so they have a better idea of their demographics. On the other hand the UK resisted the 'open borders' policy which all the other EU countries embraced.

I'm guessing the UK is a popular destination in general because English is a world language and lots of aspects of our welfare systems are universal. It's not the same in other EU countries if you go there as a Brit - you have to take out compulsory insurance for health and such like.

I'm sure it will all work itself through in the end but EU politicians would do well to look at how they can head off these dangerous levels of resentment by tightening the rules a little.