The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
May 26th 2007, 10:16 pm
#121
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 445
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
Leyxlou - that sounds hiddeous, I am so sorry to hear this, I cant imagine how hiddeous that was. No wonder you dont have fond thoughts about NZ.
We had a dreadful situation when we first got here. We bought a house at a Mortgagee auction, with lots of support of real estate etc. Due to the completion time falling over christmas, the previous owners were given 7 weeks to leave, because NZ shuts down. That gave them 7 weeks to gut the house completely. They removed the kitchen, the bathroom, all lights at ceiling level, plug points, gates, waterheater, all the doors, even cupboard doors and all they left was a firebox and the front door. 13 doors missing, including 3 sets of french doors. I discovered this when passing through to sort out uniform at my eldest's new school. We had been advised after the auction to insure the house - did so. Wasnt made aware that the insurance company had driven past the house, looked up the drive and as it was an old tumble down villa had decided it was likely to still be *on scrim* so only gave us a *Market value* policy. The significance of this would have meant little until the morning after the discovery.
We got the realtor who had assured me he had been to the house that morning to see if they were moving out (clearly he hadnt been there and wasnt protecting our interests at all) to come up with me. I locked the car doors with the children in as we walked up the drive to see if anyone was in. We walked in and found it stripped bare and even floors were pulled up just to be destructive. We walked to the rear of the house - he got on the phone to the Selling Bank to inform them of the situation and they handed over the house to me there and then........................like I wanted it! We called the police, they werent interested, 48 hours later someone ambled up and wanted to see if we were the previous owners and just checking WE werent looting or something :curse:.
We had 2 very young children, 2 dogs and had to move in to the house to protect it from further problems of the previous owners or vandals returning. We had boards up at the open holes and slept on inflatable mattresses in one room with crow bars.
The issue is that at a mortgagee sale people arent required to leave chattels, and the sale is therefore for fixtures and the house itself. The Police would not see our point of view that doors, Kitchen cabinets, sink units, baths, showers etc were not chattels, they were integral to the house. They have finally come on board and have had a warrant for this man's arrest out for the last 3 years. We know where this man lives and his family live in the same town!!
Well, being English we hoped the insurance was going to sort this out. Er...no. The little insurance man came round the first morning after, he walked in and said *you know about a Market value policy??* to which I said no. Well it means that an old door in a house is lets say worth $100 down a reclaimation yard................the insurance company will give you 10% less that figure to replace your stuff. So in total, for the bathroom, the kitchen, the water heater, the gates, the lighting fixtures and all the work that was required to put these things in and get people to secure the house - they gave us $7000. The doors were oversized and not available in any of the reclaimation yards we rang and visited - a quote for replacement new ones was $16000. But that wasnt a bit important to the insurance company.
Anyway, 10 weeks later, we are still arguing the toss with the insurance company and the police found the doors and some of the kitchen and bathroom stored in town. The insurance company said that they would have the haul dropped off at the house and whatever we didnt now want (because we had done some work to replace the stuff) we could leave for them to sell on...............but we would need to pay some money back to them. So the stuff came back and all we wanted was the doors. The insurance company then called an auction comapny to come and collect the rest for sale and busily worked out what we needed to pay them back! Well this company turned up, laughed and rang the insurance guy and told him it was tat and they werent taking it! I was asked to get it sold by whatever means I could - they on some level trusted me as I was their client.......mistake. I sold the whole lot ($12000 worth of stuff it turns out) for $50 to the local reclaimation yard we liked the most! We paid back $1800 and changed insurance company!
We have never quite got over that, and we made history I think as far as mortgagee sales go!! In the local area only a fire surround has gone missing. We had potbellies and loads of original features ripped out. Talk about renovation hell! The previous owners were dodgey to say the least and they turned it into a drug house during those 7 weeks, so we are lucky it wasnt a P lab!
Sorry to hyjack - just wanted to stand up and say *we have had a crap story about NZ too*.............not as bad as Lexylou's. I am so sorry that all happened to you! Even 4 years on, we are still known as that Pom family with THAT house.........and at every opportunity Kiwis like to ell me that it was done because we were POMs. These previous owners could have sold their house to us in the previous 6 weeks before auction and got the asking price they wanted, but no. Am I bitter about it - yes!!!
Sorry again for the hyjack!!
We had a dreadful situation when we first got here. We bought a house at a Mortgagee auction, with lots of support of real estate etc. Due to the completion time falling over christmas, the previous owners were given 7 weeks to leave, because NZ shuts down. That gave them 7 weeks to gut the house completely. They removed the kitchen, the bathroom, all lights at ceiling level, plug points, gates, waterheater, all the doors, even cupboard doors and all they left was a firebox and the front door. 13 doors missing, including 3 sets of french doors. I discovered this when passing through to sort out uniform at my eldest's new school. We had been advised after the auction to insure the house - did so. Wasnt made aware that the insurance company had driven past the house, looked up the drive and as it was an old tumble down villa had decided it was likely to still be *on scrim* so only gave us a *Market value* policy. The significance of this would have meant little until the morning after the discovery.
We got the realtor who had assured me he had been to the house that morning to see if they were moving out (clearly he hadnt been there and wasnt protecting our interests at all) to come up with me. I locked the car doors with the children in as we walked up the drive to see if anyone was in. We walked in and found it stripped bare and even floors were pulled up just to be destructive. We walked to the rear of the house - he got on the phone to the Selling Bank to inform them of the situation and they handed over the house to me there and then........................like I wanted it! We called the police, they werent interested, 48 hours later someone ambled up and wanted to see if we were the previous owners and just checking WE werent looting or something :curse:.
We had 2 very young children, 2 dogs and had to move in to the house to protect it from further problems of the previous owners or vandals returning. We had boards up at the open holes and slept on inflatable mattresses in one room with crow bars.
The issue is that at a mortgagee sale people arent required to leave chattels, and the sale is therefore for fixtures and the house itself. The Police would not see our point of view that doors, Kitchen cabinets, sink units, baths, showers etc were not chattels, they were integral to the house. They have finally come on board and have had a warrant for this man's arrest out for the last 3 years. We know where this man lives and his family live in the same town!!
Well, being English we hoped the insurance was going to sort this out. Er...no. The little insurance man came round the first morning after, he walked in and said *you know about a Market value policy??* to which I said no. Well it means that an old door in a house is lets say worth $100 down a reclaimation yard................the insurance company will give you 10% less that figure to replace your stuff. So in total, for the bathroom, the kitchen, the water heater, the gates, the lighting fixtures and all the work that was required to put these things in and get people to secure the house - they gave us $7000. The doors were oversized and not available in any of the reclaimation yards we rang and visited - a quote for replacement new ones was $16000. But that wasnt a bit important to the insurance company.
Anyway, 10 weeks later, we are still arguing the toss with the insurance company and the police found the doors and some of the kitchen and bathroom stored in town. The insurance company said that they would have the haul dropped off at the house and whatever we didnt now want (because we had done some work to replace the stuff) we could leave for them to sell on...............but we would need to pay some money back to them. So the stuff came back and all we wanted was the doors. The insurance company then called an auction comapny to come and collect the rest for sale and busily worked out what we needed to pay them back! Well this company turned up, laughed and rang the insurance guy and told him it was tat and they werent taking it! I was asked to get it sold by whatever means I could - they on some level trusted me as I was their client.......mistake. I sold the whole lot ($12000 worth of stuff it turns out) for $50 to the local reclaimation yard we liked the most! We paid back $1800 and changed insurance company!
We have never quite got over that, and we made history I think as far as mortgagee sales go!! In the local area only a fire surround has gone missing. We had potbellies and loads of original features ripped out. Talk about renovation hell! The previous owners were dodgey to say the least and they turned it into a drug house during those 7 weeks, so we are lucky it wasnt a P lab!
Sorry to hyjack - just wanted to stand up and say *we have had a crap story about NZ too*.............not as bad as Lexylou's. I am so sorry that all happened to you! Even 4 years on, we are still known as that Pom family with THAT house.........and at every opportunity Kiwis like to ell me that it was done because we were POMs. These previous owners could have sold their house to us in the previous 6 weeks before auction and got the asking price they wanted, but no. Am I bitter about it - yes!!!
Sorry again for the hyjack!!
May 26th 2007, 10:18 pm
#122
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2007
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 75
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
I think that applies as a new immigrant anywhere, not just to NZ... common sense really, after all you are the new one in to a country that has its own rules and way of doing things, therefore you are the one who is vulnerable to sharks. Place your trust carefully and do your homework.
May 26th 2007, 10:56 pm
#123
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
Apple13 - we had been in the country fro 2 months at this point. And were you/are you fully aware of these issues with insurance and buying at a Mortgagee sale? Effectively no-one can be effectively insured against the occupier doing what they want. In the UK most often, the previous owner has defaulted and they are vacant houses sold as is. Here the Mortgagee is protected, not the buyer. I never said it was because we were English, I was saying that is what people love to tell us, because it makes then feel better. Its a quick, flip answer which is another way of rubbing in that we are seen as fresh off the boat and ripe for abuse from local trades people etc. I dont personally buy into that as we had ALOT of tradesmen through our one and only door that first year and they were fine. A bit naive themselves almost.
May 26th 2007, 11:02 pm
#124
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
How much homework was I to do, more than we did already?? Very easy to judge. This is unprecidented in NZ and having spoken to a very important Real Estate Lawyer in Wellington, who has only dealt with Mortgagee sales for the last 20 years - what happened to us was a statistic because it never happens. Ergo - no laws or practice will change until it becomes a growing issue. We were interviewd by Fair Go. I agree that it is a new migrant issue to some extent as how could we ever expect to know what pitfalls there are to anything. However it is very remiss of any country to allow such glaring gaps in their practices that this should happen to anyone - because it could happen to anyone, and probably will do so more and more.
I resent being told I was naive (read stupid) because we faced that hardship square on and still made a damned good go of living here. There by the grace of god go all of us. (non-christian, hence little G there)
I resent being told I was naive (read stupid) because we faced that hardship square on and still made a damned good go of living here. There by the grace of god go all of us. (non-christian, hence little G there)
Last edited by Poppy2; May 26th 2007 at 11:04 pm.
May 27th 2007, 12:12 am
#126
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
If you mean do I either take it as a personal issue that they did this or that I caused it in some way - neither. I would have happened to anyone buying this house, it is down to the system and these particular people being shifty. How can experienced Realtors and lawyers offer support, advice and *homework* to people like us - if this has never happened on this scale before? Everyone was naive to the risk. So, sorry to say I am not taking responsibility at all for the situation.
In the UK they evict these people first then sell the house. But here, Banks dont want the properties to stand vacant, even if it is for days, because of the potential vandalism, so they sell the houses with the Mortgagee still there. So who is the one who is culpable for this happening? Me for assuming that all the reassurances were real, or the system for protecting the Banks investment to the last and letting the buyers pick up the peices. What do you imagine the difference in value might have been from the day we saw the property, to the day we took posession in that state? The law protects the Bank and the Mortgagee. This could have happened to a Kiwi as much as it happened to us.
In the UK they evict these people first then sell the house. But here, Banks dont want the properties to stand vacant, even if it is for days, because of the potential vandalism, so they sell the houses with the Mortgagee still there. So who is the one who is culpable for this happening? Me for assuming that all the reassurances were real, or the system for protecting the Banks investment to the last and letting the buyers pick up the peices. What do you imagine the difference in value might have been from the day we saw the property, to the day we took posession in that state? The law protects the Bank and the Mortgagee. This could have happened to a Kiwi as much as it happened to us.
May 27th 2007, 7:45 am
#127
Just Joined
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
Think its really primitive here. No choice in shops. Really miss home.
May 27th 2007, 8:42 pm
#129
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 217
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
Hi Poppy2 & Lexylou,
I just wanted to say to you both how genuinely sorry I was to read your dreadful stories. It must be really tough to experience this in your own country but to go through what you both have been through living in another must be really tough! Karma to you both.
Poppy2, sorry if a silly question, but I presume I am right in thinking that a mortgagee sale is what we call in the UK a repossession?
Lexylou, I was curious re: the boyracers, from what you have described it is a horrific situation that you and your OH had to live with week upon week, is it something that is "officially" recognised and is action being taken? I keep reading posts on this subject and they mainly seem to be from the Christchurch area, am I right in thinking that this seems to be an area that suffers most from this problem?
Lexylou, I read all the banter about the "happy Clappies" and the "Negatives" and have had my share of input (as well you know) but on a serious side, are you now at a place where you think that you will not now return? I know when I first started reading your posts you were still trying to maintain a "more balanced" view of NZ and as well as the negatives, you still had a view of the positives. Are you now staying put in Scotland, has it won out as your place to bring up your children? (well, lets face it, when the sun shines it doesn't get much better than here does it!) Hope that you do not mind me asking.
Finally, speaking as a "Happy Clappy" still in the UK, threads like these are still of huge amounts of interest to me (as well as the entertainment value of the spats) as the one thing that I get from this site that I cannot get from reading the emigration magazines and newspapers is the "warts and all" side to life. For warned etc.
So, thanks loads, and looking forward to more!
I just wanted to say to you both how genuinely sorry I was to read your dreadful stories. It must be really tough to experience this in your own country but to go through what you both have been through living in another must be really tough! Karma to you both.
Poppy2, sorry if a silly question, but I presume I am right in thinking that a mortgagee sale is what we call in the UK a repossession?
Lexylou, I was curious re: the boyracers, from what you have described it is a horrific situation that you and your OH had to live with week upon week, is it something that is "officially" recognised and is action being taken? I keep reading posts on this subject and they mainly seem to be from the Christchurch area, am I right in thinking that this seems to be an area that suffers most from this problem?
Lexylou, I read all the banter about the "happy Clappies" and the "Negatives" and have had my share of input (as well you know) but on a serious side, are you now at a place where you think that you will not now return? I know when I first started reading your posts you were still trying to maintain a "more balanced" view of NZ and as well as the negatives, you still had a view of the positives. Are you now staying put in Scotland, has it won out as your place to bring up your children? (well, lets face it, when the sun shines it doesn't get much better than here does it!) Hope that you do not mind me asking.
Finally, speaking as a "Happy Clappy" still in the UK, threads like these are still of huge amounts of interest to me (as well as the entertainment value of the spats) as the one thing that I get from this site that I cannot get from reading the emigration magazines and newspapers is the "warts and all" side to life. For warned etc.
So, thanks loads, and looking forward to more!
May 27th 2007, 9:30 pm
#130
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
If you mean do I either take it as a personal issue that they did this or that I caused it in some way - neither. I would have happened to anyone buying this house, it is down to the system and these particular people being shifty. How can experienced Realtors and lawyers offer support, advice and *homework* to people like us - if this has never happened on this scale before? Everyone was naive to the risk. So, sorry to say I am not taking responsibility at all for the situation.
In the UK they evict these people first then sell the house. But here, Banks dont want the properties to stand vacant, even if it is for days, because of the potential vandalism, so they sell the houses with the Mortgagee still there. So who is the one who is culpable for this happening? Me for assuming that all the reassurances were real, or the system for protecting the Banks investment to the last and letting the buyers pick up the peices. What do you imagine the difference in value might have been from the day we saw the property, to the day we took posession in that state? The law protects the Bank and the Mortgagee. This could have happened to a Kiwi as much as it happened to us.
In the UK they evict these people first then sell the house. But here, Banks dont want the properties to stand vacant, even if it is for days, because of the potential vandalism, so they sell the houses with the Mortgagee still there. So who is the one who is culpable for this happening? Me for assuming that all the reassurances were real, or the system for protecting the Banks investment to the last and letting the buyers pick up the peices. What do you imagine the difference in value might have been from the day we saw the property, to the day we took posession in that state? The law protects the Bank and the Mortgagee. This could have happened to a Kiwi as much as it happened to us.
May 28th 2007, 8:45 pm
#131
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Holmfirth
Posts: 83
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
There are too many swimming pools in New Zealand - Auckland City alone has 101 !
Thankfully in the UK the government and many local councils have recognised the dangers associated with swimming and other active sports and are doing their best to stamp such activities out.
Thankfully in the UK the government and many local councils have recognised the dangers associated with swimming and other active sports and are doing their best to stamp such activities out.
May 28th 2007, 9:15 pm
#132
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
The beaches around Dunedin are terrible - even though they are all really accessible only 4 ever have lifeguards on them. Most times we go to a beach with the kids, they have to boogie board by themselves, and there might only be 2 other people a dog and maybe a penguin or sealion on the whole beach. We have to take a picnic, because most beaches have no cafes or ice cream parlours.
How uncool is that!
How uncool is that!
May 28th 2007, 9:53 pm
#133
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Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Nearly there
Posts: 427
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
Most (all?) NZ public primary and secondary schools do not have lunch rooms.
Imagine all those kids not having a proper place to sit down and enjoy a meal. Some schools do not even allow the children inside in bad weather. They must huddle under inadequate shelter, and can't sit because the outside benches are wet. There are never enough benches for everyone, anyway.
Most schools do not provide healthful food; they sell mostly high sugar pastries, disgusting pies and sausage rolls, and otherwise unwholesome food and drink. The selections are always very limited.
These are facts.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10442364
Imagine all those kids not having a proper place to sit down and enjoy a meal. Some schools do not even allow the children inside in bad weather. They must huddle under inadequate shelter, and can't sit because the outside benches are wet. There are never enough benches for everyone, anyway.
Most schools do not provide healthful food; they sell mostly high sugar pastries, disgusting pies and sausage rolls, and otherwise unwholesome food and drink. The selections are always very limited.
These are facts.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10442364
May 29th 2007, 12:05 am
#134
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Back in NZ & loving it - living in Orewa
Posts: 1,183
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
Most (all?) NZ public primary and secondary schools do not have lunch rooms.
Imagine all those kids not having a proper place to sit down and enjoy a meal. Some schools do not even allow the children inside in bad weather. They must huddle under inadequate shelter, and can't sit because the outside benches are wet. There are never enough benches for everyone, anyway.
Most schools do not provide healthful food; they sell mostly high sugar pastries, disgusting pies and sausage rolls, and otherwise unwholesome food and drink. The selections are always very limited.
These are facts.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10442364
Imagine all those kids not having a proper place to sit down and enjoy a meal. Some schools do not even allow the children inside in bad weather. They must huddle under inadequate shelter, and can't sit because the outside benches are wet. There are never enough benches for everyone, anyway.
Most schools do not provide healthful food; they sell mostly high sugar pastries, disgusting pies and sausage rolls, and otherwise unwholesome food and drink. The selections are always very limited.
These are facts.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10442364
I was trying to remember lunch at my primary and intermediate schools over here and I can't recall lunch rooms either. We used to sit outside, sometime it was quite cold but I can't remember what we did when it was raining - I think we might have been allowed into the assembly hall. It must be a selective memory thing, you know how the sun always shone on holidays? I don't remember anyone going down with hypothermia or pneumonia, nor does it seem to have done me any lasting damage. My mum always made us all packed lunches except once a week or so we were allowed the unhealthy pie option.
May 29th 2007, 12:07 am
#135
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Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Back in NZ & loving it - living in Orewa
Posts: 1,183
Re: The slag off New Zealand Ultimate Thread.
There are no pay and display machines in any of the beach car parks!
I now have so much loose change rattling around in my car, must start giving more to the SPCA dog outside the supermarket.
I now have so much loose change rattling around in my car, must start giving more to the SPCA dog outside the supermarket.