Pension shocks for migrants
Feb 12th 2007, 5:17 am
#31
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Nelson NZ
Posts: 18
Re: Pension shocks for migrants
Oh apple 12 you are as confused as southerner, you are talking about tax. sorry, national Insurance contributions ARE NOT TAX.
They are contributions made by individuals into nothing more than a GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED RETIREMENT PENSION SCHEME, not the consolidated government's fund.
As for a hiding to nothing, crap! Get your facts right and before offering a so called mature opinion do a bit of research!
Cheers!
They are contributions made by individuals into nothing more than a GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED RETIREMENT PENSION SCHEME, not the consolidated government's fund.
As for a hiding to nothing, crap! Get your facts right and before offering a so called mature opinion do a bit of research!
Cheers!
Feb 12th 2007, 5:44 am
#32
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Nelson NZ
Posts: 18
Re: Pension shocks for migrants
Sorry, but I do know what I am talking about, but one thing I could agree with you on though, is that instead of NZ's pension being based on residential criteria, i.e. 5 years after 20, 5 years after 50, total in all 10 years minimum, then as Kiwisaver gets a hold, NZ's pension may in the end have to be like the UK's contributory one, proportional
It is the most obvious answer, my 23 years in NZ, not a full pension just a proportional. My 20 odds years in the UK, as it is now, proportional.
For me, 2 proportional pensions, how easy and fair is that?
Obvious common sense beyond the understanding of our (NZ) political masters.
I am not likely to cross swords with you again, this was my first foray into blogs, a necessary blog I feel for intending migrants.
I could start another because Aussie does the same as New Zealand but that's another story!
Cheers,
It is the most obvious answer, my 23 years in NZ, not a full pension just a proportional. My 20 odds years in the UK, as it is now, proportional.
For me, 2 proportional pensions, how easy and fair is that?
Obvious common sense beyond the understanding of our (NZ) political masters.
I am not likely to cross swords with you again, this was my first foray into blogs, a necessary blog I feel for intending migrants.
I could start another because Aussie does the same as New Zealand but that's another story!
Cheers,
Feb 12th 2007, 5:50 am
#33
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 716
Re: Pension shocks for migrants
Hi haze and steve,
I am not an expert but I would say you would not be affected. My only concern is that I would hate others to get caught, like so many here hence the blog.
Those of us battling this mess are kept up to date by the guy running the website.
This is the latest info, a message put out by the government.
GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO REPORT OF SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PETITION 2005/60
Presented to the House of Representatives in accordance with Standing Order 253
INTRODUCTION
1 The Government has carefully considered the Social Services Committee’s report on Petition 2005/60. The Government welcomes the Committee’s report, which highlights the important issue of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants. The Government responds to the report in accordance with Standing Order 253.
2 The Government is currently undertaking a comprehensive review of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to superannuitants and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas. It is intended that a paper on the treatment of overseas pensions and related issues will be considered by Cabinet in early 2007. Legislative implications, if identified, will be progressed during the life of this Parliament.
RECOMMENDATION AND GOVERNMENT RESPONSE
Background
3 Rules for the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants are set out in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964. This policy ensures that New Zealand shares the cost of providing a retirement income with the country where an overseas pension recipient has lived. When a person is entitled to New Zealand Superannuation, the effect of this is to top up their relevant overseas pension to the level of New Zealand Superannuation entitlement so that a person (or couple) living in New Zealand receives a pension entitlement which is the greater of either the overseas pension or the New Zealand Superannuation entitlement. The Government is currently conducting a review of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to superannuitants and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas.
4 The Social Services Committee considered Petition 2005/60 which requests a select committee inquiry into the appropriateness of, and the administration of, the provisions contained in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964.
5 The Minister for Social Development and Employment provided a response, dated 16 August 2006, to a Committee question on the Petition.
6 The Social Services Committee presented its report on the Petition to the House of Representatives on 7 September 2006. In its report the Committee made the following comments.
“We understand that aspects of New Zealand Superannuation, including the direct deduction provisions contained in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964 which impact on equity issues for those with private overseas contributory pension schemes, are currently being reviewed by the Government.
We believe that it is inappropriate for the committee to duplicate the work of this review. However, given the ageing population and immigrant component of New Zealand’s current demographics and the widespread concerns conveyed by the petitioners, the Government’s review should be accorded urgency.”
Recommendation
7 In its report the Social Services Committee recommended:
“that the Government make plain the aims, scope and timing of the review.”
Response
8 The aims, scope and timing of the Government’s current review of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas are outlined below.
Aims of the Review
9 The aims of the Government’s review are to:
• review the current policies relating to the treatment of overseas pensions paid when a New Zealand superannuitant is receiving an overseas pension similar to New Zealand Superannuation to ensure that they meet today’s requirements and those of the future
• consider issues raised with the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas.
10 These objectives encompass the Government’s commitment, under its Confidence and Supply Agreement with New Zealand First, to “investigate ways to improve options for senior citizens who may be eligible for foreign pensions as well as New Zealand Superannuation”.
Scope of the Review
11 There are two areas of focus to the review: the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants, and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation to people resident overseas. The legal provisions relating to these components are set out in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964 and sections 21 to 35 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001.
12 The specific criteria guiding the review are to:
• ensure adequate incomes for persons eligible for New Zealand Superannuation
• provide consistent rights that are fair and equitable
• ensure that policies are fiscally sustainable and administratively effective
• ensure that policies are acceptable to the international community.
Timing
13 Officials have reported on the various issues under the scope of the review and further work is currently under way. Cabinet is due to make decisions in early 2007. The proposals will be assessed against other initiatives in relation to the Budget process. Legislative implications, if identified, would be progressed during the life of this Parliament.
Conclusion
14 The Government is aware of the interest in the current work on the issues related to the treatment of overseas pensions and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas. The current review of these provisions has a high priority and Government is progressing this review with urgency.
15 The Government would like to thank the petitioners and the Social Services Committee for highlighting this important issue.
__________________________________________________ ___
Immigration is a big step, but in todays world so much easier. It is so easy to spend time here and try. Many people now house swop. So easy, just pack a suitcase, hop over and try the place out. Then make the decision. We are house swoppers, we are in Nelson and have swopped with Auckland, Birmingham and Bristol. If anyone is interested, we are heading back to Blighty around April, we have 2 kids in London, and are looking for a swop within about 100 miles of it. We are going over for about 6 months. Our house can be seen @ http://www.warmfit.com/home.exchange.htm One thing I will say, the housing and enviroment available here are superb. Buy a piece of land and build your dream house. We bought this place for its location and difference. Oh, and one more thing, if you are coming over and have a house full of furniture, bring the whole lot out. Sit down over a glass of wine one night and list all the things you own. Then see what they would cost to replace if you got rid of them. We have moved back and forth between the UK 4 times and have always used containers, a 20 footer cost us about £1,400, it would cost hundreds to to send a personal things in a few boxes anyway. Make sure your container is not a pallet container, they do not have the securing rings all along the top and bottom. Any thing else I can help anyone with just ask. Cheers
I am not an expert but I would say you would not be affected. My only concern is that I would hate others to get caught, like so many here hence the blog.
Those of us battling this mess are kept up to date by the guy running the website.
This is the latest info, a message put out by the government.
GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO REPORT OF SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PETITION 2005/60
Presented to the House of Representatives in accordance with Standing Order 253
INTRODUCTION
1 The Government has carefully considered the Social Services Committee’s report on Petition 2005/60. The Government welcomes the Committee’s report, which highlights the important issue of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants. The Government responds to the report in accordance with Standing Order 253.
2 The Government is currently undertaking a comprehensive review of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to superannuitants and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas. It is intended that a paper on the treatment of overseas pensions and related issues will be considered by Cabinet in early 2007. Legislative implications, if identified, will be progressed during the life of this Parliament.
RECOMMENDATION AND GOVERNMENT RESPONSE
Background
3 Rules for the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants are set out in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964. This policy ensures that New Zealand shares the cost of providing a retirement income with the country where an overseas pension recipient has lived. When a person is entitled to New Zealand Superannuation, the effect of this is to top up their relevant overseas pension to the level of New Zealand Superannuation entitlement so that a person (or couple) living in New Zealand receives a pension entitlement which is the greater of either the overseas pension or the New Zealand Superannuation entitlement. The Government is currently conducting a review of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to superannuitants and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas.
4 The Social Services Committee considered Petition 2005/60 which requests a select committee inquiry into the appropriateness of, and the administration of, the provisions contained in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964.
5 The Minister for Social Development and Employment provided a response, dated 16 August 2006, to a Committee question on the Petition.
6 The Social Services Committee presented its report on the Petition to the House of Representatives on 7 September 2006. In its report the Committee made the following comments.
“We understand that aspects of New Zealand Superannuation, including the direct deduction provisions contained in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964 which impact on equity issues for those with private overseas contributory pension schemes, are currently being reviewed by the Government.
We believe that it is inappropriate for the committee to duplicate the work of this review. However, given the ageing population and immigrant component of New Zealand’s current demographics and the widespread concerns conveyed by the petitioners, the Government’s review should be accorded urgency.”
Recommendation
7 In its report the Social Services Committee recommended:
“that the Government make plain the aims, scope and timing of the review.”
Response
8 The aims, scope and timing of the Government’s current review of the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas are outlined below.
Aims of the Review
9 The aims of the Government’s review are to:
• review the current policies relating to the treatment of overseas pensions paid when a New Zealand superannuitant is receiving an overseas pension similar to New Zealand Superannuation to ensure that they meet today’s requirements and those of the future
• consider issues raised with the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas.
10 These objectives encompass the Government’s commitment, under its Confidence and Supply Agreement with New Zealand First, to “investigate ways to improve options for senior citizens who may be eligible for foreign pensions as well as New Zealand Superannuation”.
Scope of the Review
11 There are two areas of focus to the review: the treatment of overseas pensions paid to New Zealand superannuitants, and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation to people resident overseas. The legal provisions relating to these components are set out in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964 and sections 21 to 35 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001.
12 The specific criteria guiding the review are to:
• ensure adequate incomes for persons eligible for New Zealand Superannuation
• provide consistent rights that are fair and equitable
• ensure that policies are fiscally sustainable and administratively effective
• ensure that policies are acceptable to the international community.
Timing
13 Officials have reported on the various issues under the scope of the review and further work is currently under way. Cabinet is due to make decisions in early 2007. The proposals will be assessed against other initiatives in relation to the Budget process. Legislative implications, if identified, would be progressed during the life of this Parliament.
Conclusion
14 The Government is aware of the interest in the current work on the issues related to the treatment of overseas pensions and the payment of New Zealand Superannuation overseas. The current review of these provisions has a high priority and Government is progressing this review with urgency.
15 The Government would like to thank the petitioners and the Social Services Committee for highlighting this important issue.
__________________________________________________ ___
Immigration is a big step, but in todays world so much easier. It is so easy to spend time here and try. Many people now house swop. So easy, just pack a suitcase, hop over and try the place out. Then make the decision. We are house swoppers, we are in Nelson and have swopped with Auckland, Birmingham and Bristol. If anyone is interested, we are heading back to Blighty around April, we have 2 kids in London, and are looking for a swop within about 100 miles of it. We are going over for about 6 months. Our house can be seen @ http://www.warmfit.com/home.exchange.htm One thing I will say, the housing and enviroment available here are superb. Buy a piece of land and build your dream house. We bought this place for its location and difference. Oh, and one more thing, if you are coming over and have a house full of furniture, bring the whole lot out. Sit down over a glass of wine one night and list all the things you own. Then see what they would cost to replace if you got rid of them. We have moved back and forth between the UK 4 times and have always used containers, a 20 footer cost us about £1,400, it would cost hundreds to to send a personal things in a few boxes anyway. Make sure your container is not a pallet container, they do not have the securing rings all along the top and bottom. Any thing else I can help anyone with just ask. Cheers
Feb 12th 2007, 6:33 am
#34
Account Closed
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 527
Re: Pension shocks for migrants
Sorry, but I do know what I am talking about, but one thing I could agree with you on though, is that instead of NZ's pension being based on residential criteria, i.e. 5 years after 20, 5 years after 50, total in all 10 years minimum, then as Kiwisaver gets a hold, NZ's pension may in the end have to be like the UK's contributory one, proportional
It is the most obvious answer, my 23 years in NZ, not a full pension just a proportional. My 20 odds years in the UK, as it is now, proportional.
For me, 2 proportional pensions, how easy and fair is that?
Obvious common sense beyond the understanding of our (NZ) political masters.
I am not likely to cross swords with you again, this was my first foray into blogs, a necessary blog I feel for intending migrants.
I could start another because Aussie does the same as New Zealand but that's another story!
Cheers,
It is the most obvious answer, my 23 years in NZ, not a full pension just a proportional. My 20 odds years in the UK, as it is now, proportional.
For me, 2 proportional pensions, how easy and fair is that?
Obvious common sense beyond the understanding of our (NZ) political masters.
I am not likely to cross swords with you again, this was my first foray into blogs, a necessary blog I feel for intending migrants.
I could start another because Aussie does the same as New Zealand but that's another story!
Cheers,
A tax is something that governments do to raise money, and they don't have to give it back to you. A tax can also be called a levy, a duty or a NI contribution. Governments like taking money, and if you leave the country where you gave the money to the government, it will be a lot harder for you to get it back again, especially after a long time, as rules easily change over time.
Governments like taking your money, they tend not to like giving it to you if they can think of a reason not to.
You like the idea of a proportional contribution system that you have outlined above. The NZ government like the idea of the system they currently have. Why would they want to change to what you want? It would be far more complex, they would have to know what the status is for each immigrant. It is far simpler for them to have the system they have now.
Like I say, good luck with your cause.
Feb 12th 2007, 6:41 am
#35
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Nelson NZ
Posts: 18
Re: Pension shocks for migrants
Hi Irish Guiness
we have used containers both back and forth and used no particular shipping company.
Just ring around to get a price and ask if they can deliver the container on a lowered platform, makes it so much easier.
The Kiwi companies tend to drop the container on the ground and leave it for a few days.
Make sure you order a container with the strapping loops top and bottom of the walls
I once took a Bond Bug, remember the bright orange fibreglassed body 3 wheeler on a Reliant frame, back in a container. I got some scaffolding and built it in our garage to get the size right.
A lot of British garages are roughly the same size of a container, 20' X 8'.
Great for practising packing before the container arrives.
I winched the Bug up a ramp into the container using one of those industrial strops.
Amazing power by simply operating the little handle. Mind you every so often the Bug had to be blocked and braked whilst releasing the strop to pull it up tight. Afterwards I used the strop from back to front of the container to hold everything including the scaffolding from moving.
Even as amateur packers we have had little breakage. Recording the boxes going in is essential. What you will need in NZ to start with needs to be easily recognized to put aside.
Insurance is essential but not prohibitive, charged as a proportion of the contents value.
We brought everything out, its amazing what you might need, so put it all in.
On one occasion, we shared a container, just another thought.
Find out how long it takes for arrival in New Zealand and then adjust the container to suit.
Good luck.
Cheers
we have used containers both back and forth and used no particular shipping company.
Just ring around to get a price and ask if they can deliver the container on a lowered platform, makes it so much easier.
The Kiwi companies tend to drop the container on the ground and leave it for a few days.
Make sure you order a container with the strapping loops top and bottom of the walls
I once took a Bond Bug, remember the bright orange fibreglassed body 3 wheeler on a Reliant frame, back in a container. I got some scaffolding and built it in our garage to get the size right.
A lot of British garages are roughly the same size of a container, 20' X 8'.
Great for practising packing before the container arrives.
I winched the Bug up a ramp into the container using one of those industrial strops.
Amazing power by simply operating the little handle. Mind you every so often the Bug had to be blocked and braked whilst releasing the strop to pull it up tight. Afterwards I used the strop from back to front of the container to hold everything including the scaffolding from moving.
Even as amateur packers we have had little breakage. Recording the boxes going in is essential. What you will need in NZ to start with needs to be easily recognized to put aside.
Insurance is essential but not prohibitive, charged as a proportion of the contents value.
We brought everything out, its amazing what you might need, so put it all in.
On one occasion, we shared a container, just another thought.
Find out how long it takes for arrival in New Zealand and then adjust the container to suit.
Good luck.
Cheers
Feb 12th 2007, 7:55 am
#36
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: In a large village called Auckland
Posts: 5,249
Re: Pension shocks for migrants
Oh apple 12 you are as confused as southerner, you are talking about tax. sorry, national Insurance contributions ARE NOT TAX.
They are contributions made by individuals into nothing more than a GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED RETIREMENT PENSION SCHEME, not the consolidated government's fund.
They are contributions made by individuals into nothing more than a GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED RETIREMENT PENSION SCHEME, not the consolidated government's fund.
There are also many other classes of NI payable by employers and the self employed, with Class 1a payable by the employer on any additional perks or benefits given to you by your employer.
