Carpezen

Hi again,

I'm wondering if there's anyone here who's lived in Hong Kong or Singapore as well as NZ and can comment on NZ's cost of living and nett purchasing power as compared to HK or SG. Any other comparative experiences of someone who's lived in those places would also be great.

On a personal note, I have relocated about 3 times in the past but strangely it never got easier or less stressful and as a matter of fact the first time I moved was actually the easiest - sometimes being clueless helps

Thanks all for your comments
CarpeZen

Don

HK is cheaper for most things, obviously not for accomodation.

But if you want to factor in average salaries, you'd be rather better off in HK provided you only have to pay a modest amount for your flat.

What price no 'city claustrophobia', though?

I find the best way to relocate is to get somebody else to pay for it and organise it.

kingsway

Most of the facts are on the web and the OECD has comparative statistics on income taxes and cost of living. An example from NZ gov

New Zealanders’ assets - The Net Worth of New Zealanders – A report on their assets and debts, Statistics New Zealand and the Retirement Commission, August 2002
• On average, individuals have $97,900 in net assets, and couples $322,300. However, the median value of assets (the middle of the range) is $10,300 for individuals and $172,900 for couples. By comparison, the average wage is a little under $39,000 per annum.
• The home accounts for 36% of the total value of the assets of New Zealanders. If other properties are added, the total rises to 45%.
• Assets in superannuation schemes account for six percent of total assets. Life insurance policies add another two percent to that total. This compares with 15% in Canada and 11% in the USA.
• Six percent of assets are held in bank deposits.
• New Zealand has one of the lowest private savings rates of any OECD country. New Zealand’s savings declined as a percentage of GDP from 3.8% in 1996 to 1.1% in 2000. (OECD.)

New Zealander’s debt – The Net Worth of New Zealanders (as above)
• 80% of debts are by way of mortgage. Next is bank overdrafts and the like at 10%, student loans at five percent and credit card debt at three.
• Credit card debt is the most common form of personal debt, with about half of those surveyed having such debt.
• This may understate the importance of credit card debt. The Reserve Bank estimates outstanding credit card balances at $3.6 billion at February 2003, compared with the household savings survey (HSS) estimate of $1.9 billion. Some of the difference will be the outstanding balances on business credit cards and some will reflect the growth of debt since the HSS survey.

Superannuation schemes - Report of the Government Actuary for the year ended 30 June 2002
• In 1990, there were 333 employment based registered superannuation schemes covering 22.6% of the employed workforce. By 2001, the number of schemes had fallen to 263. (Note: a number of stand-alone schemes have folded into master trusts). However, coverage of the employed workforce has declined from 22.6% to 14.6%.
• The decline in employer-sponsored schemes has been offset by an increase in the numbers in retail superannuation schemes. Membership of private sector employer and National Provident Fund schemes fell from 273,065 active members in 1990 to 218,284 in 2001. However, this fall was more than offset by a strong rise in the membership of retail superannuation schemes: up from 234,590 active members to 434,583. Balances in the retail schemes rose from a little under $1.5 billion in 1990 to nearly $8 billion in 2001.
• The accumulated assets of all registered superannuation schemes are a little over $18 billion. The government pays out a little under $6 billion in NZ Superannuation benefits each year.

Views on savings – Sovereign Saver Pulse survey February 2003, AMP Attitudes to Saving research July 2002, ISI Colmar Brunton research March 2003.
• No more New Zealanders are saving for their retirement now than five years ago, with 58% saving for their retirement in 1997 and 57% saving for their retirement now. (Saver Pulse)
• 40% of people, not yet retired, with household incomes over $50,000 are not saving for their retirement. (Saver Pulse)
• Attitude is the main driver of everything of savings behaviour, with income neither the motivator nor the key barrier to savings. (Attitudes to Saving)
• Successful savers put money away before they see it. Less successful savers try and find the money after they’ve paid for everything else. (Attitudes to Saving)
• The reasons people don’t save include poor knowledge and planning skills, wanting things now, conflicting priorities, paying for children’s education, supporting their parents, and living beyond their means. (Attitudes to Saving)
• People have no idea how much they need to save for their retirement. If they do get some advice they’re overwhelmed by the magnitude of it. (Attitudes to Saving)
• We believe we’re a nation of poor savers and this tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. (Attitudes to Saving)
• People are aware of the need to save but find it hard to do so. They are looking for a way of being able to save and still achieve their personal lifestyle goals (Colmar Brunton)
• Still a belief that someone will look after us if we don't save (Colmar Brunton)

Carpezen

Hi Don. Thanks for the feedback. I find it amazing and a bit worrying if HK is indeed cheaper. I thought that HK was very expensive in terms of:

1. Entertainment: US$7-8 for a pint of beer, $75 for a dinner at a restaurant for two - excl. wine, books at 15% above the printed pirce on the book.
2. Obviously rent
3. Fancy supermarket items like imported cheese, premium airflown meat, fruits.
4. Flights during holiday period at literally double the normal price.
5. Vetrinary services and dog food

Things which were cheap in HK and I'm expecting to be more expensive in NZ:
1. Taxis
2. Fast food and very local coffe shop style meals
3. Telecomm
4. No-brand clothes
5. Electronic/Electrical appliances

What do you think about the above? Anything you would add to those lists?

Thanks everyone for your feedback.
CarpeZen

Don

You could choose to live an expensive life in HK..or not. First, you weren't running a vehicle unless you were super rich or very senior with a chauffeur, so that's a saving. Drinks/ eating out etc - HK varies from London/ NY prices to very affordable, if you want to do the equivalent of eating out in swanky restaurants/ drinking in the latest western bars then yes, it's expensive. But there are plenty of normal alternatives and 95+% of HK residents don't go to the dearer places.

HK books: if you are coming from the US then you've been spoilt, the rest of the world pays more for books and import books are usually a bit dearer everywhere in the world. In NZ they are priced OK.

In NZ you can easily pay USD 5 a pint, more in downtown AKL or Welly, though in the sticks slightly cheaper. Similarly, eating out somewhere reasonably good (no wine) would be about USD 60-70 for 2. So not that much cheaper. You can always do big fish & chips take away for 2 for USD 6-7

There's not that much of a market for the fancy imported foods in NZ as the local stuff is good

Flights out of NZ aren't particularly cheap unless you watch your timings (ie fly in low season) and book well in advance.

SAINT

We lived in HKG before and still have friends live there.

Accommodation depends on your job, where your office is, whether your employer pays your rent (it was common for expats before 1997), is it near a MTR (underground) station. Rent can cost you a lot. It is a big city, so it has its share of problem as any other big city in the world. e.g. I know that HKG & Tokyo are the only 2 cities in the world that (in rush hours) employ people to push people into the underground trains in order for the doors can close.

Income Tax is low, still 16%, I think. No GST, VAT or NI. Everything is tax free, except alcohol & tobacco, but it is not much.

Food is cheap and wonderful. If you go to swanky places or 5 stars hotels for a meal, it can be expensive. However, HKG was hit by the SARS last year, and everything is still cheap at the moment.

For weekends, Macau is 1 hour away by jetfolds, it was a portugese colony before, they called it the Las Vagas of the East. China can be reach by train or buses within 1 hour. Thailand, Singapore, Taiwan...all not far away by air, a lot of bargain flights available.

HKG people is very friendly and helpful, if you try to learn a little bit of Cantonese, you can go miles.

Singapore is clean, everything is in order, but very conservative. My freind is a doctor there, he told me that some people think that a couple married and sleep in the same bed, then, they will have a baby without doing anything. He needs to tell some people about sex (around 4-6 couple a year).

Singapore is very hot as well. The food may be a bit spicy for me. English is more common in Singapore than HKG. Singapore people is very nice and hard working as well.

Hope this help.

ST

Carpezen

Hi ST, Thanks for the comments. What you've written is more or less my experience as well. I've lived in HKG and SIN for about 4 years each. I was trying to get a feel for how would NZ be as compared to those places as most people on this forum naturally compare it with the UK.

From what I understood so far, NZ won't be that much different in terms of prices (except for rent and cars). I guess we'll do some clothes, shoes and electorincs shopping before we leave Singapore

SAINT

Hi, Carpezen,

It depends where you are going and what job that you will be doing, if you are going to Auckland, it may be just like any other big cities in the world, you may need to stock up with brand names for job interview. I have been to NZ a lot in the 80's - 90's, but I have not been there for a long time. I was told that brand names are expensive in NZ.

Good luck.

ST