Stormer999

Sounds like they will make excellent Brits!

Bo-Jangles

Thanks for answering my question without taking offence or assuming any underlying mischief to my question, such as some did. I am glad you enjoy your life in the UK because I did too and when I hear people raving on about how wonderful life in NZ will be compared to their current situation, I will often challenge this because life in the UK isn't half as crap as many people would have you believe and the grass always looks greener over the fence.

Whilst I am sure in some people's eyes I'll be high on the list of negative whingers notwithstanding what the mischief makers might think, I do not hate New Zealand and I don't think of a time when I have said this. Despite earning 'decent' by Kiwi standards money, we do however struggle with the finances here and I can't stress enough what a major holdback this has been in our enjoying life here more.

We had what I now realise was a very good and comfortable life in the UK, but I had to leave to find that one out. It is natural for everyone to compare what they have now with what they might or might not have had in the past. Comparing UK to NZ there are many similarities and many differences but not always nor necessarily for the better. Afterall, you can move to the next town or village and find things better or perhaps worse. You might find the houses less expensive but the neighbours not so friendly, the schools not so good or the shops more handy. Is it really 'whinging' to say so?

You prefer the climate in London to Dunedin, yet I hear so many other saying they are moving here for 'better' weather. It's not better, it's different with many places equally as cold or colder than parts of the UK. Without a doubt its wetter here and people need to know this kind of thing before getting carried away with how wonderful their new life will be. 'Lifestyle' opportunities (whatever that is) and views are available in other parts of the world too and NZ does not have a monopoly on this. I have to laugh at the folks who come on here going on about how great life is in NZ because they can now grow tomatoes, lettuces and potatoes in their garden. Erm well excuse me, the last time I looked it was quite possible to do this in the UK too. Did they really need to move to NZ to achieve this?

You don't like to hear people on this forum bagging NZ, probably in equal measure to me not getting why so many people want to bag the UK. The world has been in recession, yes the UK has problems and probably isn't in such a good shape at present, but where is? NZ has different issues and they're not any less irksome when you have to live the day to day in the country, go to work, pay the bills and listen to the next hair-brained or half-cocked scheme that the politicians have come up with today.

My true opinion of NZ is that really it's all much of a muchness, same shite different time zone, except I work more hours and have less money to show for it. I spend far more time at home doing the mundane chores, being the homemaker, shopping around for specials, cooking and baking etc than was ever was necessary in the UK. Other so-called 'lifestyle' opportunities don't bridge that gap because I actually have far less time and available funds to do much more.

Ultimately, I feel that a lot of people expect NZ to offer an easier life and I can only wonder who's kidding who. If people's expectations are better managed then they should not be too disappointed when they get here. If they're expecting (delete as applicable) nine months of summer / to pay less taxes / cheaper cost of living / less crime/ less bullshit from the Government / less hoons, obnoxious chumps or chavs etc, then they need to start looking at another country.

isheps84

Wow,

Nice post. I have been mooching over these forums for a few months now and that was a cracking post.

Thumbs up

Stormer999

I think most people want NZ because it's population is 61 MILLION people less in the same space! Forget any other reasons or excuses. Some of us object taking turns to lie down!............As simple as that! Quality of life is just as it says.....

Jo-Chris

What a great post! We were starting to get fed up with all the negativity and depressing outlook on this forum but your post made me smile (no smiley added)!

Bo-Jangles

If it is as simple as that, then we may as well close down the forum, as no further discussion or information is required.

Expat Kiwi

A very sensible and well thought out post. People who leave with pie-in-the-sky expectations are going to be disappointed when they arrive and find it's the same sh*t different bucket. At the end of the day there's still the crust to be earned, the clothes to be washed and fuel bills to pay.

If they complain they're told to stop whingeing and harden-up, "love it or leave."

Perhaps if they learned to harden up before arriving and cope better with the challenges life throws them in their own country they'd be better prepared for the challenges of a new one? That just doesn't apply with moving to New Zealand but to any country.

Migrants, almost by definition, are a dissatisfied bunch!

squarepants

- You know you've made that compulsory now

I don't think your post was at all arrogant, however I do hope it doesn't put people off writing about the things they're finding difficult.

We went looking for the negative threads before we came out because we already liked the place enough to want to live here forever. The trouble is, it's difficult to sift through the bun throwing on the site in order to get to the useful stuff.

First hand experiences are more useful than any online calculator or happy, clappy immigration weekend/presentation.

With regard to restaurants and luxuries etc, it's all much of a muchness and when we're back on a good salary we'll find it easy to live here - because if you've got money then you've got choice. But on a low salary with the price fixing of food and power - it's tougher than UK because there is no monopolies commission and no consumer power so no choice.

We knew that in order to get PR, my husband would have to take an entry level job. Or, we could come over on a visa and he could do contract work at a salary we're used to. We chose minimum wage with PR - a decision made after reading negative posts last year discussing difficulties in getting work visas renewed in a recession. So a massive thank you to all who posted some pretty harrowing stories.

We're poor right now, but we've got security - we chose our priority and planned accordingly.

The contract jobs will come and in time we'll be back where we were - ish. The point I'm making is without the negative threads, we wouldn't have set aside such a large contingency (1 year's gross UK salary), we would have sunk everything into a house and been mortgage free in something worth less than it was a year ago.

We've treated moving here and settling in as a 2 year process rather than an event - but there are still times I'm stunned at how wrong we got some things.

We would recommend to anyone still at the planning stage - to arrive in the winter months. As tenants you'll have a lot more power and choice and the long term rental fees are cheaper - it would also pay to see the houses at their worst - in the summer months, what you see isn't always what you get.

We're living in 10 year old brick and tile which is colder inside than outside. Our friends are living in an old 40s wooden house and it's been renovated to such a high standard that it's far warmer and their fuel bills are about $35 less a week. Also, their rent is less.

The above certainly isn't a positive statement, but I would hope that someone reading it make might make a more informed choice and save themselves a pile of cash that could perhaps top up any contingency fund.

In the mean time, we're researching renewable energy and planning our own build.

We also decided to rent rather than buy straight away - the very best thing we ever did and a decision made after the negative housing posts.

Moaning for the sake of it is never a good thing, however, without prior knowledge of common difficulties - how can people planning to come here possibly put in place contingencies needed to get over the tough stuff?

We're grateful for the negative posts and because of them -we've got PR/security, we've saved and planned and in the long term we're going to be fine

squarepants

That's really quite sad, you certainly shouldn't be put off by any of the negative postings. We've found some things more difficult than expected here, but we've lived in several countries on 3 different continents - and this is where we decided to settle long term because the long term benefits outweigh the short term negatives.

I suspect lots of the pointless moaning on the site not backed up with specifics - is just people letting off steam because they don't want to be whinging poms outside.

If you're serious about coming over, look for the negatives that hit a nerve and form a plan to deal with them. You can make anything work over here, you just need to be aware in advance as much as possible, and plan/save to deal with it.

dannigirl

Great post Bo, I think you hit the nail on the head with a few points.

Pieface, as a kiwi (and from Dunedin) I too bite my tongue at some of the posts, mostly because I get annoyed when people make sweeping statements and generalise about the whole of NZ. That their experience is what happens to everyone. Lets face it people are more likely to write about their negative experiences.

BUT I think it is truly valuable for people to post their experiences good and bad, putting in as much detail as they can about their "journey". This is what helps other immigrants, real experiences about cost of living, real experiences of crime, weather, jobs etc.

By far the biggest difference has to be culture and I really think a lot of people underestimate this. We take for granted our own sense of culture, for me living away from NZ in the UK has given me a greater sense of my kiwiness. It is so different growing up in NZ to the UK. The UK on a whole is a very rich nation, you are used to in my opinion a higher standard of living, what in my opinion is greater in NZ is the quality of life.

Standard of living for me means - quality of housing, quality of cars, income relative to outgoings or disposable income, access to resources such as choice over a wide range of products and services.
Quality of life - leisure vs work time, on a personal level family, access to a large variety of free things to do, living closer to and surrounded by land and nature, living a less populated city, less time having to do chores such as shopping, driving in traffic, better access to amenities more easily.

Please note this is my perspective of living in London - life is bloody hard here with a small child. I have to plan everything down to shopping to avoid crowds and traffic!!! I am usually on a strict timetable to rush from place to place, every outing is determined by traffic, crowds and don't get me started on experiencing 30+ degree heat in a flat in London.....not nice! For us as a family, life will be easier in NZ. Hopefully we can return to Dunedin, we know jobs will be difficult to come by, that we'll have to work our way up, wages will NOT be the same level (or close)....but I know that day to day life will be more enjoyable, easier, but that is my personal situation because it is where my family is and it will be familiar to me.

I think that most people that can afford to contemplate immigrating are most likely used to quite a high standard of living. Now this doesn't mean they don't work hard for what they earn, they probably are sensible with money, save hard and by doing this have choices available to them. The reality is that you don't realise that NZ is not the same until you actually live there as a kiwi does. Earning local wages and paying local prices. Add on top of that missing friends and family, being immersed in an unfamiliar culture and no wonder the negatives do outweigh the positives most of the time.

You quite rightly point out that a lot of the lifestyle factors that are achieved in NZ could be achieved in the UK. The weather is so variable in NZ, you cannot compare say Dunedin to Kerikeri. There IS much more rain in some parts of New Zealand, but not all! I think people should try other areas of the UK, there are some fantastic places in the UK to live, complete with amazing scenery...however there are all the problems that people face in NZ, low wages, cost of housing compared to wages, not being able to immerse or integrate into local villages. Like you say same shite, different bucket.

For me on a personal level some of the remarks on this site get a bit close to the bone. It is just a difference in opinion most of the time, or a different experience which I totally accept. Language plays a big part and sometimes I think people are quite harsh, get too personal or they just generalise too much.

On a whole though, I think the reality of living in NZ has to be made clear through other people's experiences. It's not whinging per say but some people do come across as whingers (IYSWIM) but then they could be living in the lap of luxury and still find something to bloody complain about!!!!

Dannigirl.

Perry Groves

I agree with most of the above. Even the U.K. has Catfish being passed off as Cod in some restuarants, and as for crime, London provided enough of that for me for a lifetime.

JohnThePom

That's one of the most insightful and relevant things I've read for a while.

Explains a lot :-) (and I don't mean that as an insult to everyone!)

WP

ExKiwilass

I agree with everything you said except I'm not sure about the quality of life being better. I think that's one of those eye-of-the-beholder things - if you're into art galleries and history, NZ is pretty lame and your quality of life is going to suck.

This is an interesting conversation for me. I've been chatting to some expat kiwi mates in the Uk over the past few months. One of them would not go back. She loves the Uk, lives in a nice part of London, and loves all the culture & history. She feels like she belongs there and has never been homesick once.

The other one said something similar to Dannigirl - never realised what a kiwi she was, finds Britons narrow minded, blah blah. Didn't say she'd go back but didn't seem that fussed with the UK either.

None of us can agree, that's the bloody problem

ExKiwilass

Ok, I don't know if I count, but I don't think you're a negative whiner. I actually think this is a quite balanced post and you nailed some of the reasons why I wouldn't return anytime soon (with differences cos I don't live in the UK). It's just a given to me that NZ living standards are lower. They just are.

dannigirl

One of the biggest issues as I see it is that we rarely explain our personal circumstances in full, personal history and baggage we carry around with us which heavily influence where we live and the choices we make in life. We all have different opinions on standard of living, quality of life, what is a need versus a want, how much money we all need to live or indeed survive. It's so hard to compare and so right that it is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

Would be interesting to hear if that woman who lives in London has children. Something in me just clicked when I had a child, the pull home began and I can't suppress it - as much as I do try at times, because god knows we will always be financially better off in the UK. Of all the kiwis I have known in London they have all gone home, or plan to return home in the next couple of years.

I half agree with you about history and culture, however NZ does have thriving art communities, and there is shock of horrors "culture" in NZ. There of course is not the access to the same amazing art galleries, museums, nor is the culture similar to British and European culture...but then that would be comparing apples with pears wouldn't it. To say NZ has no culture is not true, but it certainly does not have the abundance that the UK has.

And yes, I agree that none of us can agree!