Jumping the ditch
 

Every time I look at the NZ press there are stories of Kiwis and emigrants heading to OZ for a better life, more money etc

Of the dozen or so Brits I know in NZ, all but a couple are counting down the days before they get hold of their NZ passports and book that one way flight to the lucky country.

I wonder how many on this forum are considering the same?

Could this ever increasing move away accelerate the inevitable joining of OZ and NZ where NZ would become the 7th state of the Commonwealth of Australia.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

No, it will never become the 7th state, both Australia and NZ are against it politically and the people themselves.

We are in a global market, things will even out over the long term.

The high disparity is really caused by the mining industry, the rest of Australia does not look that great economically and personally I think NZ offers a better lifestyle.

And of course the dumb thing is that a lot of emigration comes from the smaller towns in NZ and rural areas. Well it's the same in Aus, you need to work in the cities to earn decent money (apart from mining) and people act surprised when they move from Tokaroa and suddenly find there is more to do and they get paid more in Melbourne.

Edit : Many people are there for purely financial reasons btw, they would much prefer to live in NZ. FIFO work or living in Perth is definitely not better than living in NZ.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Ironically thats where we are moving to (Tokoroa), not our first choice, but it gets us in. My husband has a job to go to and well paid too (more than he gets here), so would be interested in your thoughts on the place, apart from it being 'rural' and with good and bad parts of town.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

All of the brits I know have no intention of going to Aus - we have all been there and done a working holiday - enjoyed it - some came here originally with the intention of going back to Aus - but now are all very settled here in NZ - much more so than we ever were in Australia.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

That's not true really. The mining sector is only 19% of the Aus economy. As for statehood - it was proposed once upon a time but it's hard to see what Aus would get out of it.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

I would have to agree with this from what I hear from those around me.

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I've worked with and played with about half a dozen who were just marking time till they got the passport and could wave bye-bye to the "village state" of NZ. These were usually well qualified, experienced professionals who had been in NZ for 2 or 3 years and were already bored with what Auckland had to offer or frustrated with poor work practices.

But then there were almost as many who were quite happy here, as I am, in spite of the work situation which was and remains rubbish. :thumbdown:

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I have no thoughts on Tokoroa, I only mentioned it because it was one of the first small towns that sprang to mind and have driven through numerous times on the way to Taupo.

I really like that part of the country though.

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"Only" 19%?

That is huge. For comparison, the entire financial industry in the UK is around 8% of the economy.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

It's too large in my estimation as well, but the point was made that the booming Australian economy is because of mines alone, and I make the point that this is not the case at all. Remember that is that entire mining sector and related economy, the mining alone is around 6%, compared to Canada's 4%.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Small town and pretty poor mainly maori community with high unemployment. Like most I've only driven
through the place and stopped for a short time but from what I've seen there's not a lot there
so best to use it as a base for a short while and look for somewhere else PDQ :unsure:

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

An ex colleague of mine lives and works in toke. he loves it. Very active social community and very peaceful compared to some places.
There's work there if you want it.

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What, like the UK isn't the 51st state of the US:rofl:

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

No, its' not.
On the sparkie side, can I install one of those heater lights in the bathroom without wiring in the fan?

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

depends.

two light unit in a ceiling with adequate ventilation above it, (for heat dispersion) possible

four light unit NO NO NO NO NO. fan has to be wired so as to come on with lights and independently

(and make sure all your work complies to ECP51)

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Plus side: cheap housing, central location

Minus side: it's a small, poor town miles from anywhere with all the usual social problems and few of the charms

Fine for a foot in the door perhaps.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

you could say that is analogous to NZ as "a foot in the door" to OZ......although NZ has some nice scenery :p

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I think "central location" to describe NZ might be stretching the truth somewhat ... :rofl:

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

LOL :thumbsup:

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

The 7th state thing ain't never going to happen. Australia already has one Tasmania it doesn't need another :D

I can tell you why we left if you like?

Money didn't come into it.

We came to Oz for a better working environment, top notch career prospects, better lifestyle, the fantastic climate (25 here at one point this afternoon) more things to do in our leisure time, higher standard of housing, the more modern infrastructure, better educational opportunities for the children (secondary and tertiary) better job ops for the children when they grow up, a desire to be in a culture where one is valued for what one does/knows rather than who one knows, the more positive upbeat attitude over here where people want you to want to succeed.

It's only called the lucky country because people work hard to make it so. I'm now an Australian citizen and am proud to have an Australian passport and the little plastic wallet that came with it :)

Sure, the money is good and it has enabled us to do things that were just out of our grasp in New Zealand, but that's a bonus.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

So, why feel the need to come on the British Expat Forum (NZ section) and tell everyone how great Oz is, seeing as how you seem to have nothing positive to say, apart from NZ may be alright for 'battlers', and similar to Tasmania (with a smiley). Why not get on the British Expat Forum (Oz section) and say how much you like Australia, seeing as how you class yourself as Australian. That would be a much more positive thing, I would have thought.
NZ has a lot going for it (in my opinion). I am biased, I must admit. But I can't think of one thing I'd like to do in Queensland with my leisure that I can't do around where I live here in NZ. And most of the things you mention are a matter of personal opinion, of course (eg climate - some like constant mid 30's temps in summer, some don't ... some like negative temps in winter, some don't). I made my way through my career without any personal contacts (or who-you-knows) whatsoever. I know some immigrants say that about NZ (the who-you-know thing). But at the same time, I've heard the same from kiwis who have come back from Oz about getting jobs in Australia and said they found it difficult to break in. Personally I think it happens everywhere. NZ works hard too! Look how far NZ has come in 170 short years or so. A great British pioneering and indigenous Maori co-achievement. Some (like myself) consider NZ just as lucky! (I'm feeling some sort of post about the number of NZers in Oz coming on soon ... haha). If you read various Oz forums, there are as many moaners there about economic matters, education and such as anywhere else in the world.
Your comment about 'it's only called the lucky country because people work hard to make it so' is rather patronising, in my opinion. What you're insinuating there is that people in NZ, UK and other countries don't work hard. Ridiculous. Other countries don't have the same abundance of natural resources. I think that might have something to do with the moniker. Lol.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Because the thread is about why so many people move from New Zealand to Australia. I think I have the qualies to answer it.

Well you'd have to live here to know that for sure. Having a good year round-climate can broaden your range of activities and interests, especially if you have children who like to get out and do things.

This appeared in the GC Bulletin this week, this is why people move here from New Zealand.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/images/u...COAST-HOME.jpg

Coast now home to 40,000 Kiwis

Which belies the myth that people move here because of the mining boom. BTW Coomera and Upper Coomera are very popular with Kiwis and are nowhere near the 'glitter strip'

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

40,000 kiwis live on the GC. Over 4 million live in NZ. Majority rules. :D
PS yesterday was the shortest day of the year - mid winter. It's about 16 degrees here at the mo and the sun is shining. :) Life is great!!! (in the main. lol.)

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Right on both counts.

For those who are interested in these things the 2011 census showed almost half a million people born in New Zealand now live in Australia, that's more than the entire population of Christchurch in the last NZ census in 2006.

(I don't know if the Australian 2011 census gives a figure for the number of non-NZ born NZ passport holders who live here (eg. Brits who've used a NZ passport to get into Australia) or the number who've emigrated to Australia without first gaining NZ citizenship)

Out of that half a million the greatest number (98,000) live in Queensland, that's more than the population of Palmerston North.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/articl...=newsmain,nrhl

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

You may be interested in this other snippet from that person you quoted from kiwisinoz.com.au ExpatKiwi.

"We love NZ, there is no question! Many of us would love to move back home to enjoy the things that simply can’t be experienced in Australia. The easy pace of life, the friendliness of Kiwis, the food & wine, the “green grass of NZ”, and the no nuclear stance are just some of the beauties of NZ that can’t be found anywhere else in the world."

The point is, there are many different perspectives. Australians also travel. There are 1 million Australians who don't live in Australia, for example. And Australia has it's own famous brain drain http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...517-1ytoo.html coincidentally an article which mentions some of the same things wrong with Oz, EK was talking about was wrong with NZ (eg employees not being valued, tall poppy syndrome), which made me laugh.

For many people the grass is greener in Oz, for others not so. There was one guy in the Waikato times today who worked in the mines in WA. He said, the money was great, but his life was crap. Having to work 12 hours a day, living in poor conditions etc. It's true, not all kiwis work in the mines, in fact it's probably a minority. But that guy is now back in Hamilton. And because someone lives in Oz doesn't necessarily mean they are any less fond of NZ (unlike yourself by the sounds of it), as the passage above indicates. Just as many Brits here are any less fond of Britain.

One things for sure, if you think NZ is less 'modern' than Oz and that Oz has better housing, and more job prospects (ie mining - which to a large degree has fueled Oz's recent economic boom, and it is also important for NZ that Oz be booming economically), how did you manage to vote Green (if I remember rightly) at the last NZ general election? Thus, despite being an Australian citizen with no thoughts of ever returning here, lumbering us still living here with a party, if they got into a power, that would like us all to be living in recylcled rubber tyre houses, with plots of cannabis and the banning of mining. Plus driving away 'brainy' people, because we'll all be on the same wage, and 'brainy' people will have to move elsewhere to get proper recognition (monetary wise) for their talents. Lol. :D Also something you complain about wrong with NZ. That would end up making NZ everything BUT modern and thriving.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...7#post10111857

I wholeheartedly agree with you! :thumbsup:. (we can agree on some things Waikato ;))

Being where we're happiest with the people who are important to us is fundamental for wellbeing. Voting with with feet and conscience aren't always easy options, but people have to do what they know is best.

The OP asked for reasons why people are jumping the ditch, I've given mine. From my experience those reasons are similar to about half a million other people's.

p.s. there are no mines in Coomera.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Things to do in Queensland that you can't in NZ, hmm, go for a swim get chased by a shark, manage to scramble to the bank escaping the shark only to be eaten by a crocodile.

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Why does it have to turn into a silly bun fight over which is better? Some people like blue cheese and some like Colby. I suspect more people buy and like Colby but that doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong with blue cheese.

I think that folk who will prefer Australia generally prefer a more urban lifestyle. Folk who get on well with NZ appreciate its more rural flavour (and I include the 'cities' in that) or at least the ability to access the Great Outdoors even while living in a city. That rural flavour includes a lower population density because although Australia's is no doubt lower on paper, when it comes to where people live the population density is generally higher (which is a good thing if you want that buzz).

I wish NZ and Australia were a little closer geographically because I love them both for different reasons. For now I prefer to live in NZ and holiday in Oz, but I suspect that will reverse at some point but there's no denying there are quintessential NZ lifestyle factors that you can't get in Australia, despite Australia having the lure of hotter weather, higher wages and all the goodies of an urban lifestyle.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

I expect its more a case of people putting up with Colby because that's what they know and can afford. I can't think of any other reason why anyone would choose Colby. :rofl:

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

My Aunt lives in Adelaide - year before last was so hot (40c+), that she moved her mattress into her lounge (only room with air-con) and didn't open her curtains for six weeks! :D Some people love that sort of weather but that was one of the reasons we didn't want to move to Oz.
One man's heaven......:thumbsup:

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

:lol: no way could I stand those sort of temps, tell her to move up here!

oh I know! they're all over Brisbane, can't move for the crocs on Queen St. but they tend to go for small children and emus so I'm relatively safe.

I'm seriously thinking about setting myself up in the crocodile leather business, I could turn a tidy profit you think?

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

See, you joke but the thing about the snappers, biters and stingers of Oz isn't so much that you're at great risk (your risk of car fatality on the way to the beach is much greater than your risk of shark attack, for example), just that you adjust your life to reduce the risk and for some people that's more of an inconvenience than for others.

For example- one of the things my husband does with the kids is what they all call "explore walks" and involves just crashing around in the woods/ bush, climbing trees, hiding in shrubs, building dens etc. In Australia this kind of freedom *IS* curtailed by the beasties- the bush behind our house had redbacks and Sydney funnel webs and we saw snakes there more than twice. It didn't put us off walking on trails with boots and long socks but it did prevent that sort of outdoor fun 3/4 of my family enjoy. On our recent trip to Oz we did a bushwalk to the coast but hadn't really factored for it being quite so overgrown in parts and we only had sandals on ... I got an enormous shock when a lace goanna ran out across the path about a handspan from my foot (awesome to see- felt very lucky but it was a probably best part of metre from nose to tail tip so I nearly pee'd my pants). We turned back because the bush got denser and the kids and I were in open toed sandals (silly of us- but we were just driving along and spotted the track) and we were with an Aussie who agreed with our call, so we knew we weren't being soft. So it's not that the risk itself poses a problem because it's easy to reduce the risk of contact with nasties, but sometimes the things you have to do to reduce that risk are a shame and don't really apply to living in NZ. People always say they've never seen anything of concern in Oz, but then I think they must live very differently to us because in our many trips and short spell living there we've been pretty lucky and seen a bit.

We are mindful about swimming at dawn and dusk in Oz, too. And of course it's all very well and true to point out that in most places it's only really too hot for a few weeks at best, but the shame is those few weeks tend to be over the school summer hols and when the days are longest. It's not for nothing that Australian kids spend some of the highest average hours indoors.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

IMO in either country you're more at risk from the sun every day than you are from the critters but you do have to learn to adapt to the environment.

I've not had a single poisonous spider in my house here but was bothered by White Tails in New Zealand, this is because here my windows and doors are screened and I take in washing as soon as it's dry.

My kids camp rough in bush bivs and one has shared a barn with a python (http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...on#post9749934) whilst there are obvious dangers the only untoward happening to date (touch wood! ) has been getting rained out.

Not swimming at dawn or dusk is sensible because you know there's a greater risk of shark attacks at those times, but it's also wise because there's no lifeguards on duty to haul you out of a rip.

Sharks don't respect territorial waters. A tagged Great White going by the name of Marina was caught in Manukau Harbour last year and was also picked up in the Kaipara.

People know not to swim in the canals on the Goldie because of the Bull Sharks, in Sydney there are Funnel Webs which means I'd not walk around in bare feet on grass down that way, whereas here I do it all the time.

The rip will get you at Surfers every bit as much as it will at Piha so take nothing for granted and be sensible no matter where you are.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

It would appear that money is your main choice for moving to oz, you could have saved a few $$$ by going to oz in the first place instead of flying over it and going to nz
The croc market is pretty much sorted, you may well have missed your chance there
Good luck in your quest for the money grail.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

You are surely joking.................aren't you?:unsure:

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No, why would I? (but I will clarify and say living in Auckland, Wellington - not just anywhere)

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Yet you bizarrely chose Queensland which pretty much sucks at most of your requirements in comparison to Sydney/Melbourne.

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I can't understand why anyone would put a toe in at Piha- I've seen Piha Rescue twice and that was enough :D

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PS wish I'd known about your wheelie bin tip- got a fright one day there too!
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=602222
And it was taking washing in to fold that resulted in a huntsman landing plop on my chest!

Honestly, have you not seen much? I've been to Oz 6/7 times- twice for a few months- and we've met a common brown on the Glass House Mountains (that was prolly the biggest fright as it was pissed to meet us), several green tree snakes on bush walks (not bothered by them), heaps of Redbacks (Anna Bay, Port Stephens has the soil type they like apparently), Sydney funnel web, St Andrew's Cross and Golden Orbs. My second evening living in NSW I had a scorpion crawl out onto my ******' leg much to the absolute hilarity of our Australian rellie who was with us. I'm like a wildlife magnet.

Oh, I've also seen sharks in the surf at Birubi Beach, but then that's not so uncommon I've heard, as it's a nursery area.

I also got reasonably badly stung by a blue bottle (I wasn't in the water- just paddling!) that managed to get wound round my ankles and was pretty uncomfortable getting my husband to remove it. I was scarred for months but it was a very pretty scar like I was wearing anklets.

And of course I was lucky recently to see the lace goanna :)

None of it puts me off Australia, I like wildlife- and I agree the sun is the biggest risk and is actually a worse risk here in NZ, imo- but you do adjust because of it and I'm always surprised when people say they've seen almost no wildlife.

Re: Jumping the ditch
 

Am off out now, will reply to you later in the day.