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Islam and future problems

Islam and future problems

Old Feb 4th 2006, 6:39 am
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Default Islam and future problems

from the Guardian

Today a New Zealand newspaper, the Dominion Post, became the first in that country to publish the cartoons. Its editor, Tim Pankhurst, said: "We do not want to be deliberately provocative, but neither should we allow ourselves to be intimidated."
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We are coming to live in NZ and certainly a contributory factor is that NZ has such a low Muslim population. The problems that Muslims cause in Europe and much of the world will dramatically increase over the years. I very much hope that Islam will remain very small in NZ.

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Old Feb 4th 2006, 11:22 am
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Protests against the publication of Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad erupted into calls for revenge in several countries yesterday. Attempts to calm political passions mingled with defences of freedom of expression and appeals to religious authorities.
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IT IS THE GATHERING STORM

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Old Feb 4th 2006, 11:27 am
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer
Passersby stopped police officers to ask why the marchers were being allowed to carry banners threatening further suicide attacks in the city. One police officer replied: "Don't worry. We are photographing them."
Good old British bobbies eh?
Originally Posted by Adventurer
We are coming to live in NZ and certainly a contributory factor is that NZ has such a low Muslim population. The problems that Muslims cause in Europe and much of the world will dramatically increase over the years. I very much hope that Islam will remain very small in NZ.
That's not really the best way to look at things IMO. The way you word that, it's as if all Muslims are suicide bombers and nutcases, which they are not. NZ is unlikely to be a target for this kind of brainless terrorism because it holds absolutely no sway on the world stage, not because it has a low Muslim population.

Britain is being targeted because it is influential on the world stage and because it teamed up with the US for the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan.
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer


We are coming to live in NZ and certainly a contributory factor is that NZ has such a low Muslim population. The problems that Muslims cause in Europe and much of the world will dramatically increase over the years. I very much hope that Islam will remain very small in NZ.

I seriously hope this isnt the only reason you have chosen to move to NZ. Cant help thinking this makes you appear very shallow. Guess you have to keep in mind there is good & bad in all races regardless of their beliefs!
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 1:01 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by shepslady
I seriously hope this isnt the only reason you have chosen to move to NZ. Cant help thinking this makes you appear very shallow. Guess you have to keep in mind there is good & bad in all races regardless of their beliefs!
Dear oh dear! I said a contributory factor. That obviously means not the only reason!
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 2:19 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer
Dear oh dear! I said a contributory factor. That obviously means not the only reason!
Yes I gathered it was a contributory factor so obviously you have other reasons but the simple fact that this factor is sad. Guess being isolated from things like this we Kiwis find it hard to understand why people from other countries feel this way huh?
Naturally Ive seen some very bad examples living here in the US but thankfully it still hasnt clouded my judgement & I am still a believer that you cant blame all for the mistakes of some.
IMHO ( & my opinion only)I would seriously try to change your attitude at least a little before making the move to NZ as your way of thinking will go over like a lead balloon over there. No offense intended just a little friendly advise.
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 3:52 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by shepslady
Yes I gathered it was a contributory factor so obviously you have other reasons but the simple fact that this factor is sad. Guess being isolated from things like this we Kiwis find it hard to understand why people from other countries feel this way huh?
Naturally Ive seen some very bad examples living here in the US but thankfully it still hasnt clouded my judgement & I am still a believer that you cant blame all for the mistakes of some.
IMHO ( & my opinion only)I would seriously try to change your attitude at least a little before making the move to NZ as your way of thinking will go over like a lead balloon over there. No offense intended just a little friendly advise.
Its not sad at all.
What is sad is someone criticising a posting when they do not read or understand what is posted. And then subsequently increases the mistake by making assumptions which are incorrect.
IMHO your opinion is rubbish but you are entitled to it. Islam does not generally allow such freedoms.
Also you do not give friendly advise but critical bull.
Also IMHO you are better off remaining in Indiana- No offence intended. Just a little friendly advise.
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 4:31 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Being married to a Muslim man myself, I have very mixed views on the subject.

In the UK, we have the Islamic equivalent which is the BNP or National Front. Now whilst they may not be as extreme or vocal, trust me when I say they have no boundaries as to what they would do IF they were given free rein.

Now the BNP are not in any way, true representatives of English people or of the UK.

And the 'so called' Muslims that have taken to the streets chanting the evil crap they have been doing, are not true representatives of Islam.

My in-laws are law abiding, hard working people and neither push their religion or culture on anyone.

My husband is westernised and doesn't practise his religion, and has no time for extremists in any form.

I would class the BNP or NF in the same vein as any Islamic Extremists. It is wrong to push your opinion on someone and wrong to resort to violence, murder, intimidation.

I have had my dog spat on, I have been abused when walking through extremist Islamic areas.

But I have also been subjected to racist and inflammatory comments from English people.

We are applying to emigrate to Australia and we both intend to embrace the Aussie culture, not form insular groups with fellow Poms.

My husband believes that when you are in a foreign country, you should embrace that culture.

'Oh well, thats rare, because most Muslims dont think like that' I hear people say.

Well if you have been unfortunate to only have had contact from extremist people, then you won't have a clue what 'most Muslim's will think.

Because I live in a multi cultural area where the decent true Muslims live and work side by side in harmony with every other culture.

They put their christmas decs in their window and embrace the traditions of Western society.

I can see why the original poster of this thread would rather move to an area of non Islamic extremism, I would myself having had this idiots try and tell me to cover up my hair and body.

But, I don't think we should be tarring all Muslims with the same brush. There are true decent Muslims, and there are those that use the religion to dictate hatred.

There are decent English people and there are those that believe a 'womans place is in the home and get the foreigners back to where they came from' And they too are extreme.

There is good and bad in everyone and I believe that we should live and let live and keep our beliefs to ourselves.

But at the end of the day, extremism is extremism in whatever form it takes, and its not just limited to Islam either.
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer
Its not sad at all.
What is sad is someone criticising a posting when they do not read or understand what is posted. And then subsequently increases the mistake by making assumptions which are incorrect.
IMHO your opinion is rubbish but you are entitled to it. Islam does not generally allow such freedoms.
Also you do not give friendly advise but critical bull.
Also IMHO you are better off remaining in Indiana- No offence intended. Just a little friendly advise.
Your friendly advise has been noted & I thank you for it.

As for you suggesting I remain in Indiana how the heck do you know where I am better off?

Your views on my opinion might be rubbish & your entitled to that view too. My views on NZ come from having lived there for more than 40 years so maybe you are right, maybe I walked around all those years with my eyes & ears closed.

Just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side.
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 5:04 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Professional Princess.
You write a very intelligent and reasonable response.
I agree with almost all you say and there are obviously some reasonable and rational muslims who are not brainwashed by the ideological claptrap that so many are.
Personally I believe most religions are man made superstitious irrational beliefs.
Most generally preach to live and let live.
Unfortunately Islam often does not allow this.
I have known many muslims as work colleagues, sporting partners and social acquaintances. On the surface they have all seemed to be fitting into the society they live in. Unfortunately through deeper discussions I have found most of them seriously believe they are first and foremost muslim including their loyalties. The UK has been way down the list, often not even 2nd or 3rd. They have also normally believed that the world should be an islamic state. There are numerous countries where the islamic population demands a separate islamic state. There are some countries where the population even want a separate type of islamic state to another.
Is their any other large religion that has so many leaders, mullahs and imams preaching hatred, violence, murder and segregation?
I could go on and on but I just do not have the time.
I am pleased to hear that there are some muslims who may be as you say your husband is. I fear it is a small minority.
It would be nice if I am wrong as the consequences in the 21st century are dire indeed.
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Old Feb 4th 2006, 5:18 pm
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer
Professional Princess.
You write a very intelligent and reasonable response.
I agree with almost all you say and there are obviously some reasonable and rational muslims who are not brainwashed by the ideological claptrap that so many are.
Personally I believe most religions are man made superstitious irrational beliefs.
Most generally preach to live and let live.
Unfortunately Islam often does not allow this.
I have known many muslims as work colleagues, sporting partners and social acquaintances. On the surface they have all seemed to be fitting into the society they live in. Unfortunately through deeper discussions I have found most of them seriously believe they are first and foremost muslim including their loyalties. The UK has been way down the list, often not even 2nd or 3rd. They have also normally believed that the world should be an islamic state. There are numerous countries where the islamic population demands a separate islamic state. There are some countries where the population even want a separate type of islamic state to another.
Is their any other large religion that has so many leaders, mullahs and imams preaching hatred, violence, murder and segregation?
I could go on and on but I just do not have the time.
I am pleased to hear that there are some muslims who may be as you say your husband is. I fear it is a small minority.
It would be nice if I am wrong as the consequences in the 21st century are dire indeed.

I believe most religions have the capacity to brainwash, having spent 5 years in a catholic school.

The trouble is, Islamic extremism puts across a very believable argument in poor countries such as my husbands, where they promise them eternal happiness and fortune if they follow the lead.

Which is of course rubbish.

And all it takes is disillusioned angry people to grab the offer and vote for this type of power and you get an Islamic State.

Thankfully my husbands country isn't but there are groups there that are trying.

I know when the BNP took seats in their local elections for one area in the UK (cant remember where), the local people were so disillusioned by their area and the racial tension, they voted for them.

But if they truly knew what the BNP were capable of once in power, they would have changed their minds.

Its like British politics. Politicians will say anything to get your vote and once in, well they soon change.

And I really fear for the future of ordinary decent muslims, because the circle of blaming all muslims, is causing more hatred, and in turn the young and impressionable muslims will oh so easily be taken in and influenced - by the wrong people.

Turkey is an Islamic country and that was live and let live.

But when you get countries where violence and extremism is all they have known, there is no hope for the future.

I think that is sad.

Mind you, talking of westernised, you should have seen my husband in a ladyboy club in Thailand, filming me, very drunk dancing on the podium.

Quality entertainment!
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Old Feb 5th 2006, 2:36 am
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer
from the Guardian

Today a New Zealand newspaper, the Dominion Post, became the first in that country to publish the cartoons. Its editor, Tim Pankhurst, said: "We do not want to be deliberately provocative, but neither should we allow ourselves to be intimidated."
Anjem Choudhary, one of the leaders of the demonstration, refused to condemn the threat of another suicide attack in London on the scale of the July 7 bombings as a result of the perceived insult to Islam. "I am not in the business of condoning or condemning," he said. "The fact is that 7/7 was brought upon the people of London and Britain by the foreign policy of Tony Blair. There is no reason why there should not be more suicide bombings in London."
Passersby stopped police officers to ask why the marchers were being allowed to carry banners threatening further suicide attacks in the city. One police officer replied: "Don't worry. We are photographing them."


We are coming to live in NZ and certainly a contributory factor is that NZ has such a low Muslim population. The problems that Muslims cause in Europe and much of the world will dramatically increase over the years. I very much hope that Islam will remain very small in NZ.
Good post.

The difference between the BNP and Muslims is that the BNP don't advocate the blowing up of commuters, just the removal from the UK of people who wish to blow up commuters. Quite a big difference I'd say.
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Old Feb 5th 2006, 4:18 am
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

well said
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Old Feb 5th 2006, 5:50 am
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Professional Princess
I know when the BNP took seats in their local elections for one area in the UK (cant remember where), the local people were so disillusioned by their area and the racial tension, they voted for them.

But if they truly knew what the BNP were capable of once in power, they would have changed their minds.

And what would they do?
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Old Feb 5th 2006, 5:54 am
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Default Re: Islam and future problems

Originally Posted by Adventurer
f

We are coming to live in NZ and certainly a contributory factor is that NZ has such a low Muslim population. The problems that Muslims cause in Europe and much of the world will dramatically increase over the years. I very much hope that Islam will remain very small in NZ.
We live on the Gold Coast. It is full of Kiwi's who tell us that a contributory reason for leaving NZ is the Maori's. Strange that!
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