Hello!
Jan 14th 2013, 11:22 am
#46
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,213
Re: Hello!
By and large you can take measures to limit the chance of crime anywhere.
Stats show that victims of violent and serious crime tend to be meted out by perpetrators who know the victim. Not ALWAYS the case, but often the case. Random attacks on strangers are few and far between, but make the front pages because they're so rare. These stories create fear.
There is definitely an overwhelming and irrational fear of crime in the UK, normally generated by the press and media - I'm not ignoring the fact that it does go on, I'm suggesting that by and large it can be avoided if you're sensible.
Stories one hears of being mugged, for example, are usually conducted by opportunists, the most recent one being a mate of a mate who took £200 out at a cash point on his way home from a heavy session, for reasons only he knows.
Someone spotted this and that being drunk he was vulnerable and 'liberated' him of his £200. He was unharmed.
I went to watch a mates eldest play Rugby yesterday, one of his teammates left his phone in his bag in the changing room. When the game finished, his phone had disappeared.
Now, I'm not for one moment blaming the victims in these instance, but with a bit of common sense these crimes could have been avoided.
It's a shame we have to live in a world whereby we HAVE to lock things up and hide things. You might put yourself at risk of crime if you have your iPad or iPhone on display to the world on a bus or train, for instance. But being sensible you can certainly limit the risk.
For this reason tourists the world over are a target; they're relaxed, they're on holiday, surroundings are unfamiliar - tourists are always vulnerable and often carry stuff with a monetary value worth pinching.
I could go on, but you've probably stopped reading by now, but I'll end with this;
My experience of London really isn't one of 'not being able to get away from it (crime)' and I'd dare say it's the same for the majority of other Londoners.
Last edited by TommyLuck; Jan 14th 2013 at 11:25 am. Reason: poor grammar, again.
Jan 14th 2013, 11:30 am
#47
221b Baker Street
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Miles from anywhere, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 14,125
Re: Hello!
I don't really agree. I think the point you make about avoiding places in NZ is equally relevant in London, or anywhere else in the world.
By and large you can take measures to limit the chance of crime anywhere.
Stats show that victims of violent and serious crime tend to be meted out by perpetrators who know the victim. Not ALWAYS the case, but often the case. Random attacks on strangers are few and far between, but make the front pages because they're so rare. These stories create fear.
There is definitely an overwhelming and irrational fear of crime in the UK, normally generated by the press and media - I'm not ignoring the fact that it does go on, I'm suggesting that by and large it can be avoided if you're sensible.
Stories one hears of being mugged, for example, are usually conducted by opportunists, the most recent one being a mate of a mate who took £200 out at a cash point on his way home from a heavy session, for reasons only he knows.
Someone spotted this and that being drunk he was vulnerable and 'liberated' him of his £200. He was unharmed.
I went to watch a mates eldest play Rugby yesterday, one of his teammates left his phone in his bag in the changing room. When the game finished, his phone had disappeared.
Now, I'm not for one moment blaming the victims in these instance, but with a bit of common sense these crimes could have been avoided.
It's a shame we have to live in a world whereby we HAVE to lock things up and hide things. You might put yourself at risk of crime if you have your iPad or iPhone on display to the world on a bus or train, for instance. But being sensible you can certainly limit the risk.
For this reason tourists the world over are a target; they're relaxed, they're on holiday, surroundings are unfamiliar - tourists are always vulnerable and often carry stuff with a monetary value worth pinching.
I could go on, but you've probably stopped reading by now, but I'll end with this;
My experience of London really isn't one of 'not being able to get away from it (crime)' and I'd dare say it's the same for the majority of other Londoners.
By and large you can take measures to limit the chance of crime anywhere.
Stats show that victims of violent and serious crime tend to be meted out by perpetrators who know the victim. Not ALWAYS the case, but often the case. Random attacks on strangers are few and far between, but make the front pages because they're so rare. These stories create fear.
There is definitely an overwhelming and irrational fear of crime in the UK, normally generated by the press and media - I'm not ignoring the fact that it does go on, I'm suggesting that by and large it can be avoided if you're sensible.
Stories one hears of being mugged, for example, are usually conducted by opportunists, the most recent one being a mate of a mate who took £200 out at a cash point on his way home from a heavy session, for reasons only he knows.
Someone spotted this and that being drunk he was vulnerable and 'liberated' him of his £200. He was unharmed.
I went to watch a mates eldest play Rugby yesterday, one of his teammates left his phone in his bag in the changing room. When the game finished, his phone had disappeared.
Now, I'm not for one moment blaming the victims in these instance, but with a bit of common sense these crimes could have been avoided.
It's a shame we have to live in a world whereby we HAVE to lock things up and hide things. You might put yourself at risk of crime if you have your iPad or iPhone on display to the world on a bus or train, for instance. But being sensible you can certainly limit the risk.
For this reason tourists the world over are a target; they're relaxed, they're on holiday, surroundings are unfamiliar - tourists are always vulnerable and often carry stuff with a monetary value worth pinching.
I could go on, but you've probably stopped reading by now, but I'll end with this;
My experience of London really isn't one of 'not being able to get away from it (crime)' and I'd dare say it's the same for the majority of other Londoners.
Jan 14th 2013, 11:36 am
#48
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: near Heathrow
Posts: 36
Re: Hello!
I don't entirely disagree, but given the lack of population I think it is easier to avoid it in NZ. Saying that, I wouldn't have walked from downtown Tauranga back to my house in Welcome Bay after midnight either, and neither would I walk from Sipson to West Drayton anymore, though I used to. But then I would still, and have done, walk from say Kensington to Chiswick after midnight, but they are affluent areas, where you do feel safer.
Jan 14th 2013, 11:42 am
#50
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,213
Re: Hello!
I don't entirely disagree, but given the lack of population I think it is easier to avoid it in NZ. Saying that, I wouldn't have walked from downtown Tauranga back to my house in Welcome Bay after midnight either, and neither would I walk from Sipson to West Drayton anymore, though I used to. But then I would still, and have done, walk from say Kensington to Chiswick after midnight, but they are affluent areas, where you do feel safer.
Truth is, if a criminal wanted to roll you, they're potentially more likely to try it in an affluent area as there's more chance of you having something on you worth taking.
As mentioned earlier, you're extremely unlikely to be randomly attacked walking on either route.
What's more the walk from Kensington to Chiswick is far more enjoyable than from Sipson to West Drayton!!!
In general, I accept your point about the lack of population. Less people should in theory mean less crime. Certainly less serious crime.
Someone will no doubt roll out a per head of population stat soon ...
Last edited by TommyLuck; Jan 14th 2013 at 11:49 am.
Jan 14th 2013, 4:19 pm
#51
NZ wannabe
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Glasgow, UK
Posts: 255
Re: Hello!
I know, there are exceptions.
But even Glasgow is long way away for most of the population of the UK.
In fact, lovely as it is (the scenery not necessarily the towns), the whole of the M8 corridor is miles away from most of the population of the UK. Even Scotland its self with its 5 and a bit million (??) is remote, in many ways - I think that's my overriding point; there are lovely spots all over the UK for sure, but due to a mixture of physical geography and population density that lead to longer travel times over shorter distances lovely spots are not, generally speaking, as accessible as they are in NZ.
But even Glasgow is long way away for most of the population of the UK.
In fact, lovely as it is (the scenery not necessarily the towns), the whole of the M8 corridor is miles away from most of the population of the UK. Even Scotland its self with its 5 and a bit million (??) is remote, in many ways - I think that's my overriding point; there are lovely spots all over the UK for sure, but due to a mixture of physical geography and population density that lead to longer travel times over shorter distances lovely spots are not, generally speaking, as accessible as they are in NZ.
Jan 14th 2013, 4:43 pm
#52
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 137
Re: Hello!
You made a sweeping statement that New Zealand is violent. I wondered what evidence you had, that was all.
All places are violent if we are unfortunate enough to be on the wrong end of it.
I just had a look at the Met Police crime stats for London. Looks terrible but most (thankfully) people are not affected by it.
All places are violent if we are unfortunate enough to be on the wrong end of it.
I just had a look at the Met Police crime stats for London. Looks terrible but most (thankfully) people are not affected by it.
example: I remember being so impressed by behaviour at and after a concert in a large city in the US whereas in the same situation in NZ there are almost always brawls after.
Jan 15th 2013, 6:19 pm
#53
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 137
Re: Hello!
swings in roundabouts I think, from 2003 to 2010 we were never really exposed to any violence in Tauranga, I did see a fight in downtown Tauranga once, my neighbour got burgled one Christmas, and that is about it.
However, back in London, just this past 2 years, living in a nice village near Heathrow, and the neighbours house was a marijuana house once Christmas, literally, a hot house of ganja, there are burglaries all the time in the village, the son in law hears domestic violence monthly from his neighbours, I can go up West Drayton on a Friday night and see a fight.
I know the figures are pretty poor for NZ, but I was never exposed to it in the same way as I am here, nor was my sister in Auckland, but then if you know the places to avoid in NZ you are ok, whereas in the UK, or London anyway, you can't really get away from it because of the population.
However, back in London, just this past 2 years, living in a nice village near Heathrow, and the neighbours house was a marijuana house once Christmas, literally, a hot house of ganja, there are burglaries all the time in the village, the son in law hears domestic violence monthly from his neighbours, I can go up West Drayton on a Friday night and see a fight.
I know the figures are pretty poor for NZ, but I was never exposed to it in the same way as I am here, nor was my sister in Auckland, but then if you know the places to avoid in NZ you are ok, whereas in the UK, or London anyway, you can't really get away from it because of the population.
In a small beach town I know very well a woman recently stepped out of her caravan (parked in the garden of friends) was stabbed and died. I remember someone was stabbed early one evening withdrawing money from ATM (he died) about 100m from my home on a very visible busy corner. How can you avoid those kinds of attacks?
Jan 16th 2013, 7:23 am
#54
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: near Heathrow
Posts: 36
Re: Hello!
So true, unfortunately for some attacks there is simply no getting away from it no matter where you are, and I think you are right, given the density, heck even the actual population numbers, it is very disappointing that violent crimes are so frequent, and becoming more random.
On reflection, I was probably lucky to have witnessed so little crime both growing up there, and in the 7 years I spent back there, but certainly as an adult, reading local news it was clear there is a growing frequency of crimes against a person.
On reflection, I was probably lucky to have witnessed so little crime both growing up there, and in the 7 years I spent back there, but certainly as an adult, reading local news it was clear there is a growing frequency of crimes against a person.
Jan 16th 2013, 10:07 am
#55
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,213
Re: Hello!
Growing frequency of actual crime, as reported by the police?
Or growing frequency of media reports?
Clearly they're not the same thing.
Effectively with camera phones, instant messaging, internet access on phones and social networking over the past few years, any event can be news within minutes of the event taking place.
The sort of incidents that wouldn't even be raised if there wasn't footage or people giving a running commentary of the incident.
Crime will happen. It's been part of human society since we evoled, or were put on the planent (depending upon you belief). It's not suddenly got exponentially worse in recent years in any given country currently in peacetime.
Or growing frequency of media reports?
Clearly they're not the same thing.
Effectively with camera phones, instant messaging, internet access on phones and social networking over the past few years, any event can be news within minutes of the event taking place.
The sort of incidents that wouldn't even be raised if there wasn't footage or people giving a running commentary of the incident.
Crime will happen. It's been part of human society since we evoled, or were put on the planent (depending upon you belief). It's not suddenly got exponentially worse in recent years in any given country currently in peacetime.
Jan 16th 2013, 10:40 am
#56
She'll be right
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Near the beach, NZ
Posts: 1,498
Re: Hello!
Looking at the crime rates on the link it would appear that the percentage in NZ is pushed up by suicide rates. Most of the other nasty crimes (except rape, which is a little higher in NZ) are lower than the UK. I can work with that to be honest - high suicide rates but lower everything else!
On a different topic I would echo the words on the property man - come over and check out NZ before you make a decision to move there. You can research all you like, be dead set on going, then arrive and just not feel it. I know it's a lot of money to spend to go over on holiday but that will potentially save you money if you go over and don't like it and move back again. As it is very costly to send the whole family over just one parent go over and see how you like it.
Good luck!
On a different topic I would echo the words on the property man - come over and check out NZ before you make a decision to move there. You can research all you like, be dead set on going, then arrive and just not feel it. I know it's a lot of money to spend to go over on holiday but that will potentially save you money if you go over and don't like it and move back again. As it is very costly to send the whole family over just one parent go over and see how you like it.
Good luck!
Jan 16th 2013, 10:44 am
#57
She'll be right
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Near the beach, NZ
Posts: 1,498
Re: Hello!
I've been around a bit and I find NZ to be violent. Its in the culture and the thing is people don't really take it seriously. Go to Stuff.co.nz. Every day there are reports of brutal murders, rapes or violent gang activity. I think that a lot of crime still goes unreported because there is, in the large NZ 'subculture', little respect for police. The problem is that the subculture is not very 'sub'.
Jan 16th 2013, 11:42 am
#58
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,213
Re: Hello!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...her-makes-plea
Given your research suggesting that suicide is bumping up crime statistics, I can deal with this too. Afterall, suicide is treated as a crime because the killing is unlawful in the sense that that persons life didn't end naturally or by accident.
As sad as it is and whilst we need to be aware of the problem of suidide in NZ, it shouldn't be considered as part of any general criminal problem. It's an isolated crime that probably needs it's own attention away from law enforcement agencies.
Jan 16th 2013, 11:45 am
#59
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,213
Re: Hello!
On a different topic I would echo the words on the property man - come over and check out NZ before you make a decision to move there. You can research all you like, be dead set on going, then arrive and just not feel it. I know it's a lot of money to spend to go over on holiday but that will potentially save you money if you go over and don't like it and move back again. As it is very costly to send the whole family over just one parent go over and see how you like it.
Jan 16th 2013, 4:56 pm
#60
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 137
Re: Hello!
So true, unfortunately for some attacks there is simply no getting away from it no matter where you are, and I think you are right, given the density, heck even the actual population numbers, it is very disappointing that violent crimes are so frequent, and becoming more random.
On reflection, I was probably lucky to have witnessed so little crime both growing up there, and in the 7 years I spent back there, but certainly as an adult, reading local news it was clear there is a growing frequency of crimes against a person.
On reflection, I was probably lucky to have witnessed so little crime both growing up there, and in the 7 years I spent back there, but certainly as an adult, reading local news it was clear there is a growing frequency of crimes against a person.