Hanover Finance

Old Jul 27th 2008, 4:29 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by poppets View Post
dom , just seen thread , god mate soooo sorry to hear the news, hope it sorts itself out & you get your hard earned cash back. Remember you are rich in so many ways namely the beautiful kids you have & the lovely wife & your a top bloke. Take care, lots of love & best wishes to you all, praying for a good outcome xxxx
Thanks P, you are sooooooooooo right, my mate has just turned upn and told me she and her husband are separating..3 lovely kiddies..what I have potentially lost though irritating is nought compared to what others lose..those tragic parents who lost their girls in Chch, the young rugby player who died last week after an unlucky tackle..blimey life really is hard for some people...you can ALWAYS make money again.

I feel REALLY sorry for the old and infirm who may not be able to do the latter who have their wedge with HF..anyways another thanks to you all,,,deep, deep respect and gratitude to all you kindly posters!!!

You are all bloody marvellous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Jul 27th 2008, 1:16 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Sorry to hear about this....but to the poster who said their funds were safely in the Bank...think again...the investor protection level here seems to be zilch wherever you put your funds.
So eggs in several baskets (including abroad i.e. UK) seems like a good policy to me.
In your position Genesis I would be gutted and slagging off this place left right and centre.

I had a 'with profits' life policy with Equitable Life (remember that one - oldest life assurance office in the UK around since 1700s?) ....I opted to keep it in to maturity and will be interested to see the actual return I get in a couple of years time. Thanks to better UK laws, it seems I will at least get the value of all the deposits back...it's just a case of what extra on top and what could the funds have yielded if placed elsewhere......I truly hope you are looking at this kind of scenario and not a major loss.
I'd been in NZ a month or so when I first heard about all these Finance Company collapses..the Kiwis I queried it with just seemed to regard it as the norm and I got blank looks when I asked about investor protection.
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Old Jul 27th 2008, 9:41 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

I'm really sorry to hear of your news and I hope they manage to sort it all out for you asap.

We have all our savings in the one account and we're looking at moving it all They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this!
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Old Jul 28th 2008, 9:06 pm
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Oh dear, Genesis, I'm really sorry to hear what's happened to you.

But...at least you've shown time and time again on this forum that you are able to see the silver lining in the unlikeliest of places ()


I do think you'll have to expect the worst and plan accordingly. There isn't much of a 'compensation culture' out here and most Kiwis don't see any difference between 'investing' and 'gambling'. There is a very strong chance that the main men behind Hanover Finance have already siphoned off all the money to other family members and have their Cook Islands passports at the ready. It's basically massive fraud.....New Zealand is a fraudster's paradise, to be honest.

This is the point where one realises that we aren't living on a part of Europe that has floated around to the other side of the world, we are living on a Pacific Island with all that that entails. Widespread corruption and nepotism taking place in....and I'm sure we can all agree on this....beautiful surroundings.


Anyway, all the best and good luck!
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Old Jul 30th 2008, 5:09 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Just wanted to add my best wishes to you and yours. So sorry this s**t has happened,but I think from your posts you are looking at it the right way.....nothing you can really do about it,you still have the most important things( health,wife,kids etc.) and LOTS of friends here on BE. Hope the outcome is the best it can be for you,

Phyllis
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Old Jul 31st 2008, 7:41 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by weejie View Post
Just wanted to add my best wishes to you and yours. So sorry this s**t has happened,but I think from your posts you are looking at it the right way.....nothing you can really do about it,you still have the most important things( health,wife,kids etc.) and LOTS of friends here on BE. Hope the outcome is the best it can be for you,

Phyllis
Cheers mate! Heard today that one of the other big Finance House that went west (who were in a hugely parlous state) are getting 13 cents in the dollar.....nought was expected. So in the end I may get a few dollars back. I have been really blue about it of late (alas a raft of issues prevail in the Genesis household just now!!) but have decided to fight back and do my best to put the past behind me.

So there you go, they sat strength is always very close behind adversity..and I STILL have some beers left..and the cupboard though depleted is still offering some goodies!!!!!
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Old Jul 31st 2008, 10:20 am
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Cheers mate! Heard today that one of the other big Finance House that went west (who were in a hugely parlous state) are getting 13 cents in the dollar.....nought was expected. So in the end I may get a few dollars back. I have been really blue about it of late (alas a raft of issues prevail in the Genesis household just now!!) but have decided to fight back and do my best to put the past behind me.

So there you go, they sat strength is always very close behind adversity..and I STILL have some beers left..and the cupboard though depleted is still offering some goodies!!!!!
I think at the very least you should complain to your MP (whether you have a vote yet or not) about the lack of investor protection laws here or start a Wronged Consumers Action Group or something.
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Old Jul 31st 2008, 4:10 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
but have decided to fight back and do my best to put the past behind me.

So there you go, they sat strength is always very close behind adversity..and I STILL have some beers left..and the cupboard though depleted is still offering some goodies!!!!!
Yay, good on you Dom, remember it could always be worse....you could be stuck in UK enjoying the liquid summer sunshine....

Last edited by j19fmm; Jul 31st 2008 at 4:10 pm. Reason: sp
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 2:59 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by luvwelly View Post
I think at the very least you should complain to your MP (whether you have a vote yet or not) about the lack of investor protection laws here or start a Wronged Consumers Action Group or something.

Labour are not interested..thats obvious and I contacted my local national MP he's not interested either. Atleast I know of 2 parties who I will NEVER EVER vote for again. Its a bloody disgrace all eyes are on Mr Peters and this sodding $100k..never mind 3-4 billion hard earned from the back bone of NZ's 'lower classes'

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo angry that no one gives a shit..except you lot!!! I have done all I can, been in the local papers, the National NZ Herald, on ZBNewstalk, on TV3, e mailed NZ business week and the Dom. Post but no one's interested in taking this further. I am currently working with an Auckland based retired lawyer who IS offering to help for free!!! Watch this space!!
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 3:45 am
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Labour are not interested..thats obvious and I contacted my local national MP he's not interested either. Atleast I know of 2 parties who I will NEVER EVER vote for again. Its a bloody disgrace all eyes are on Mr Peters and this sodding $100k..never mind 3-4 billion hard earned from the back bone of NZ's 'lower classes'

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo angry that no one gives a shit..except you lot!!! I have done all I can, been in the local papers, the National NZ Herald, on ZBNewstalk, on TV3, e mailed NZ business week and the Dom. Post but no one's interested in taking this further. I am currently working with an Auckland based retired lawyer who IS offering to help for free!!! Watch this space!!
Hi Genesis,
We are in the same boat (only not quite as much cash) Ironically we only invested a short while ago and did it with caution after checking as much info as we could - but at that point they must have been sinking - but still advertising hard. I have also tried desperately to find out how to get my money back -with no luck - and do think that tvnz should take some responsibility for promotion - when it was effectively false advertising.
Anyhow - I will be watching this forum - and had hoped there would be more people in a similar position posting on it - but it still might happen.
I am subscribed to this thread and will be watching closely how you get on.
If there is anything that I can join you with - let me know,
Keep moving forward !!!
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 3:46 am
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Hanover: Loans beneficial
5:00AM Friday August 01, 2008
By Adam Bennett NZ Herald

Millions of dollars in related-party loans made to Eric Watson and Mark Hotchin's property companies days before Hanover Finance froze repayments to debenture holders were part of a set of transactions that left the company and its investors better off, Hanover said yesterday.

The Watson and Hotchin-owned company and its subsidiary United Finance have long been criticised for the extent of their related-party lending to the pair's property companies.

This week, Hanover was reported to have recently lent them a further $15 million.

Axis, formerly Hanover Property, was said to have used the money to pay for sections at the Jacks Point development near Queenstown it was obliged to purchase under a long standing agreement.

Documents obtained by the Herald indicate Hanover advanced significant sums to Axis subsidiaries less than two weeks before Hanover and United said they were freezing repayments of interest and principal to 16,500 investors owed $554 million.

Yesterday, a Hanover spokesman said the amount advanced to two Axis subsidiaries on July 11 totalled $9.7 million, against just over $19 million repaid by Axis and other associated parties as part of "a contemporaneous set of loans and repayments".

The transactions had reduced Hanover's related-party exposure by just less than $1 million and its exposure to the softening Queenstown property market by about $8 million, and improved the security Hanover held over remaining loans.

"We look at it as a total corporate good," the spokesman said.

Yesterday, Hanover's independent chairman, Greg Muir, reiterated he was "comfortable" with all of Hanover's lending including that to related parties.

The lending was vetted by Muir and Hanover's other independent directors, Sir Tipene O'Regan and Bruce Gordon.
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 6:17 am
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
Hanover: Loans beneficial
5:00AM Friday August 01, 2008
By Adam Bennett NZ Herald

Millions of dollars in related-party loans made to Eric Watson and Mark Hotchin's property companies days before Hanover Finance froze repayments to debenture holders were part of a set of transactions that left the company and its investors better off, Hanover said yesterday.

The Watson and Hotchin-owned company and its subsidiary United Finance have long been criticised for the extent of their related-party lending to the pair's property companies.

This week, Hanover was reported to have recently lent them a further $15 million.

Axis, formerly Hanover Property, was said to have used the money to pay for sections at the Jacks Point development near Queenstown it was obliged to purchase under a long standing agreement.

Documents obtained by the Herald indicate Hanover advanced significant sums to Axis subsidiaries less than two weeks before Hanover and United said they were freezing repayments of interest and principal to 16,500 investors owed $554 million.

Yesterday, a Hanover spokesman said the amount advanced to two Axis subsidiaries on July 11 totalled $9.7 million, against just over $19 million repaid by Axis and other associated parties as part of "a contemporaneous set of loans and repayments".

The transactions had reduced Hanover's related-party exposure by just less than $1 million and its exposure to the softening Queenstown property market by about $8 million, and improved the security Hanover held over remaining loans.

"We look at it as a total corporate good," the spokesman said.

Yesterday, Hanover's independent chairman, Greg Muir, reiterated he was "comfortable" with all of Hanover's lending including that to related parties.

The lending was vetted by Muir and Hanover's other independent directors, Sir Tipene O'Regan and Bruce Gordon.
Thanks mate, read this in the NZ Herald on line..can't really work out if its good news or bad!!! Have heard that Five Star investors are getting 22.5c in the $..so there is some hope for us shafted at Hanover getting a wee bit back I guess. I am going to vote for statutory management. There is a chap I hooked up from a radio station who is a commercial lawyer (retired) who is going to be a guest speaker at the EUFA meeting this weekend in Auckland concerning the woes of us HF investors.
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 6:24 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by squeaky View Post
Hi Genesis,
We are in the same boat (only not quite as much cash) Ironically we only invested a short while ago and did it with caution after checking as much info as we could - but at that point they must have been sinking - but still advertising hard. I have also tried desperately to find out how to get my money back -with no luck - and do think that tvnz should take some responsibility for promotion - when it was effectively false advertising.
Anyhow - I will be watching this forum - and had hoped there would be more people in a similar position posting on it - but it still might happen.
I am subscribed to this thread and will be watching closely how you get on.
If there is anything that I can join you with - let me know,
Keep moving forward !!!
I could have had my money out last April...I too thought the company was rock solid..otherwise I would have had my money out!! I was getting it back Sept 29th 2008 and WAS NOT going to reinvest..I had decided that many months ago. When did you invest? You can PM me if you fancy a chat..I'll pass you my phone number. Sorry you too have been shafted, but I think we will see some of our money returned..especially if we all vote for Stat. management. The company has got quite a bit of equity on its loan book and a number of the other failed companies are having some of that value realised by the receivers and having some cash returned. I had a mind set its all gone..so I have done my greiving..(wasn't long..cos its only shitty money!!) and now I look forward to getting a few cents back..I don't have hopes for a huge amount..so anything will be good.
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 6:28 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

There's a few red herrings in that story - the repayment of loans and making of new loans to related parties were almost certainly separate transactions and the independent directors should have reviewed the new loans from scratch (eg. whether they were well enough secured given the current environment, and fair value to Hanover, and whether Hanover was solvent at the time).

Dom, have you tried the Commerce Commission, as my understanding is the fair trading act is the one that may have been breached. They've opened an investigation and will be looking for any new evidence you or others might have.
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Old Aug 1st 2008, 7:43 am
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Default Re: Hanover Finance

Originally Posted by southerner View Post
There's a few red herrings in that story - the repayment of loans and making of new loans to related parties were almost certainly separate transactions and the independent directors should have reviewed the new loans from scratch (eg. whether they were well enough secured given the current environment, and fair value to Hanover, and whether Hanover was solvent at the time).

Dom, have you tried the Commerce Commission, as my understanding is the fair trading act is the one that may have been breached. They've opened an investigation and will be looking for any new evidence you or others might have.
Cheers S, I will call them next week.
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