squeaky

Hi Genesis,

How did you get on at the weekend ? I have tried emailing a few folk too - but nothing concrete yet.
Did you get the email back in July from Hanover saying that they are being managed by trustees ? I am now more confused than ever.

squeaky

Hi again,
Just thought I would post a reply I received from the trustees, if anyone would like contact details for them - then please pm me.


Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding Hanover Finance Limited.

Guardian Trust is the trustee for debenture holders in Hanover Finance.
Our role is to monitor the financial activities of the company to
determine whether there has been a breach of the trust deed and if so take
appropriate action to ensure the best possible outcome for investors.

Now that the company has stopped repaying the debentures as they fall due,
the company is in default of it's obligations under the trust deed.

The trustee now has the power to appoint a receiver however the company is
working on a plan to put to debenture holders which will set out a
proposal to allow investors to be repaid over an agreed period. Part of
the plan is for the shareholders to provide some additional support.

When the plan is in an appropriate form it will be reviewed by an
independent adviser who will consider whether the plan is more likely to
achieve a better result for debentureholders than a receivership.
Debentureholders will then have the opportunity to accept the plan or
reject it. If it is rejected, then the trustee will need to consider the
next option which may well be receivership.

The company has made some good progress in putting a plan together however
regret that we are unable to give any indication at this stage when a
meeting will be called to enable debenture holders to review it.


Regards

Adventurer

I refer to the following from the correspondence from the trustees:-
Trustees
Hanover Finance Limited
Receiver
Independent Advisor.

Re the communication to you from the trustees.
Unfortunately in my experience nearly all the people mentioned are scum and are totally worthless, except of course in lining their own pockets.
I can just see them puffing out their chests and complaining that anyone could possibly suggest such a thing.
Most of the finance industry is just a gravy train for people to cream off as much as they can in a legalised theft manner.

Just find out, if you can, the expenses and fees that the receivers and associated professionals end up taking out of the pot. It is normally obscene but very difficult to find out properly.

A group of investors can, if the want to, check up on Hanover, administrator/receivers if they have the time- Demand to have available to peruse everything about the company, auditors, receivers, investments, expenses, salaries etc.. You can probably force them to make available to you everything, although you may have to go to the various offices to see them. Also do not accept any limitations such as limited time etc.. Play hard ball. Let the scum know they cannot get away with anything and you have a chance that they will get away with less and in the end achieve a much better payout.

Also find all the quotes and undertakings made by the bosses of hanover and hold them to it by hassling non stop and not letting them walk away and breaking their words etc..

Good Luck.

Genesis

No I did not. But I do know they are working with a Trustee to sort the problems. Do you have $ with them. Whilst I have written all my $ off I have spoken to a number of learned people as I try to bring this to the fore, they all agree that there will be SOME money returned..how much and when is another question!! PM me if you like.

southerner

There is no doubt in my mind that you will receive a percentage of your money back, the only question is how much. If the shareholders are willing to put a decent amount of additional capital in, then it is a good sign that your payout should ultimately be pretty close to 100%, and perhaps even with a bit of interest too.

My reasoning here is that unless they have suddenly gone all conscientious and caring for their investors, then from a hard nosed business perspective the shareholders will not throw good money after bad. Remember any further dosh they put on the table now, they will not get back until after all the debenture holders are paid out according to whatever moratorium/restructuring is agreed to.

Adventurer

Especially Pertinent to this thread is the 3rd paragraph below.
So sorry for investors in this.
What a shame that 'debtors prison' is still not in existence.
And this scum Petrocevic was paid (earn't my ass) 4Million in the 3 years to July 2007 + I expect considerably more re expenses, pension payments and perhaps loads more through other businesses that got money from Bridgecorp etc..
Would many people shed a tear if he and his family suffered much bad luck, tragedy and more?
-----------------------------------------------------
Bridgecorp founder Rod Petricevic has been adjudicated bankrupt.

The ruling was made just after 5pm at the High Court in Auckland.

Earlier today it emerged the former financier also owes troubled Hanover Finance $4 million.

Hanover was represented at today's hearing as a creditor in support of the bankruptcy application.

The finance company's lawyer said the debt was due to a personal guarantee Petricevic had given on a $4 million loan from Hanover to the now failed Bridgecorp.

He said the matter had not been raised in the proceedings before today because there had been issues surrounding serving Petricevic with the relevant documents.

Bridgecorp's receivers were seeking an order of bankruptcy against the company's former chief executive over a $576,000 personal tax bill the company paid for him in September 2006.

Petricevic has made various attempts to stave off the bankruptcy adjudication.

On Monday he unsuccessfully asked the Court of Appeal for a stay of proceedings, in order to gain time for an appeal against the original High Court judgement ordering him to pay the money.

That followed an attempt in the High Court last month to gain a stay. Justice Priestley granted him a stay for a week, on the grounds that he deposit the $576,000 in a court trust account. The deadline for depositing the money came and went with no sign of the funds.

Petricevic has told the court that he is insolvent, despite earning $4 million in the three years to July 2007.

The Appeal Court noted that financial records given as evidence were so incomplete as to prompt the question "What was being hidden?"

Bridgecorp, one of New Zealand's larger finance companies, collapsed last year owing 14,500 investors almost $460 million.

Avid

Which (of the 25 or so) Kiwi finance companies that have gone bust in the last 2 years have paid out 100% to their investors??

People will get some money back and should consider anything over 50% to be an astounding victory.

I have to say, southerner, that you seem so wildly optimistic about this that I have to wonder....is there something that you aren't declaring here?

Because you are either hopelessly naive about how New Zealand business really works or you are...ahem...in on the joke.

Genesis

One lot got up to 82.5 cents in the $. Bridgecorp are getting 22.5 and the WORST case scenario for us Hanover MUGS is 50cents..apprently. I will be doing cart wheels if I get 50% back as I have simply written it ALL off in my mind and am getting on with my life.

Only time will tell what if ought we get. That's life as they say..you lose some, you lose some!!!!! Feckit's only money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

southerner

Avid,

If you are going to have a go at me then please don't misquote me by selectively using my words.
(at the very least you could have indicated that you only included part of my sentence by typing ".....then it is a good sign").

Clearly I was saying if certain things happened then the outcome was likely to be good. Readers can form their own opinions (from whatever info is available on the thread or elsewhere) as to how likely or not that is.

Of the other 25 or so companies that have failed, I don't think any have had shareholders offering to put more capital in, so at this point in time my opinion holds.

As for my understanding of business - I'm more than comfortable that my past and current experience in the UK and NZ finance industries qualifies me to give advice on this thread at least as much as the next person.

Genesis

Hanover are still fielding calls in Auckland..so atleast they still have some 'public frontage'. What concerns me is that the London based chap Watkins is still there..if I were him with soooooooooooo much at stake for him and Hotchin I would be in the fray!!! Apparently he is 'more than happy' to let his partner Hotchin to take care of the company. Ho hum...I just invested my life savings with them..what do I know? Not alot apparently...should have left it in ASB's coffers aye? Another irksome point is that while I chose Hanover because they were offering the LOWEST interest of all the finance cos I looked at they exposed us to risk that was way above the measly 9% i got..more like 12 plus %!! Had I known the real stuff they were into would not have touched them. So I do feel a bit pissed off about that. Chris lee the investment guru describes the investor at Hanover needing a 'strong stomach' Don't they come over all dependable and conservative..thats the way they look to me??

howden40

Hi
Have been following this thread and haven't felt that I have anything worthwhile to contribute.
Hindsight is a fantastic thing, you can't go on hindsight. You did what you felt was best at the time, due to interest rates felt low risk - which is something I would do. Lower interest = Lower risk, I would also plump for lower risk even if lower interest, you think it's safe.
I don't have 'guts', the most I ever invested in was gilts and fixed term accounts.

So sorry you lost your life's savings. Don't know what I'd do in your place, cry.

Best of luck for the future

Pauline

Avid

Yes....but if you actually work in the New Zealand finance industry then it's hardly a surprise that you are acting as a cheerleader for a bunch of spivs like Hanover, is it?

Your opinions, valid as they may be, are hardly impartial. But thanks for declaring your vested interest!

southerner

I have no interest in Hanover or any other failed or failing finance company. They will probably get their just rewards whatever it transpires has happened. But just as (how was it put?) 'wild optimism' contributed to Dom getting into the situation he is in, I would hate to see wild pessimism mean he would accept a lower eventual financial payout than he could otherwise get.

southerner

Dom,

Drinks are on you!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4725719a13.html

I'd like to say I had an idea that was coming, but ....I didn't. Lets face it, Xmas has come early for you guys.

Genesis

Cheers mate, one always trys to be optimistic after the initial shock...HOWEVER Greg Muir the chairman states that even if they are able to meet the criteria set by Helen (that they start repaying investors) the scheme has a 2 year shelf life thus he feels a tad optimistic as the current market prevails that they can dig 'emselves outta the fiscal shite in that time frame. But its better than 'you're never getting a penny but I keep the Porsche and all the other goodies while you rot aye'????

On the bright side have a small iamount in the Uk that is looking good at about $2.84-£1. Which is nice.