Dorothy

The son is what, 12? At 12 I wanted to be a ballerina and live in Florida at Disney World.

MrsFychan

that is as may be but at that age they are legally allowed to have their say

banski

My son has lived with me since my ex and I split when he was 18mths old and my OH since he was 2, yes he has regular contact, but he has 3 brothers 2 younger 9 and 8 and 1 older 18, my ex is engaged and getting married next year and I'm very sure they will be starting a family soon after, do i put off a whole new life for all my boys because my ex said no, or wait 3yrs til son is 16 then go.

Moomoo

Me and hubby went through this a few years ago when we were in the process of putting in our visa application.

We had two scenarios - my two children (who I get on well with their dad) were coming to NZ with us - my ex gave his permission (although it must have been hard for him as he had regular contact, but he could see the opportunities for them) and he had to supply a letter certified by a solicitor to show that he had given his permission. My two were approx 10 and 15 at the time. We had to supply this letter with our visa application. My ex comes over to visit approx every 12-18 months and stays with us. I didn't want any maintenance from him for the children so that he could afford to come and see them and he sends them gifts and treats them when he comes out. They phone regularly too.

Other scenario at that time - my step son, approx 13 at time, had been living with us for a couple of years before we looked into emigrating, he had little contact with his mother and had not seen her for around 12 months, and when she was asked if he could emigrate the answer was no. We went through the court process which took approx 6 months, step son wanted to come to NZ. CAFCASS interviewed us all (both sides) at separate times and individually, and drew their conclusions. We had to submit witness statements and give as much information as possible about our move and to prove it wasn't a 'quick and not-thought out process'.

Our witness pack included information about NZ in general, what area we were going to live in, information regarding the type of housing we were looking at, we had to supply a copy of my husband's job offer (along with salary), prices of properties for when we were looking to buy, the schools we had been in contact with (ie prospectus), details of clubs and social events that would be carried forward (ie playing rugby in the UK, and continuing in NZ, etc). We put that we were bringing all our possessions and our pets (continuity and familiarity for the kids). The court encouraged contact to begin again between step son and his mother during the process and we had to provide details on how contact could be maintained - ie skype. We had to lodge £5,000 at a solicitors in the UK as security for flights to fly him back to see his mother once at year over the Christmas/New Year period, so that if we refused to pay, he could access the money direct from the solicitors. We had to undertake to send him back and pay for flights until Uni finishes. The courts gave us permission to emigrate with him, but it was a time consuming and difficult thing to go through and costly with the court fees/barristers and consequently the flights to fly him back every year (approx $15,000 to date).

So far we have bought five flights for him for the Christmas/New Year period - not the cheapest time of year but we knew we had to do this in order to show that contact could be maintained and to not be in breach of the court order ... and it won't be forever.

The courts are interested in the welfare of the child so you have to do your homework and prove it's been well thought out, and that contact can be maintained.

Good luck

simonsi

He is, like it or not, in the tiny minority of fathers who still have contact after such a length of time post-split. The court will weigh that quite strongly. They will also take into account your Son's views, however they won't be bound by them necessarily.

It may be great for your side of the family but the court will also consider your son's relationship with his father. To what extent you will have to see.

Moomoo

PS we're still here, happy in NZ and they are now 16, 19 and 21. They all now have options for the future to choose where to live - UK or NZ, and possibly Aus in the future.

Hubby and I are staying in NZ as far as we can tell for the future, the kids have options to do what they choose

bourbon-biscuit

Excellent post.

Yes, the latter. I feel for you but I also feel for your son and your ex. Until you have done the emigration thing you cannot predict the effect it will have on relationships with those you leave behind; Skype and email and annual visits are no substitute for regular contact, imo&e.

banski

My ex and I always got on very well and I would never stoop so low as to invent problems to get my own way, I also feel for him and would do my best for them to stay in constant contact, I am trying to make a dicision that will be the best for ALL my boys future's, I have also told my son if he hated it he could come back, but my head is all over the place now.

banski

I'm glad it all worked out for you MooMoo

simonsi

I'm sure you are but the court will likely confine itself to a view of the child in question and what is in his best interests as they see it.

I'm not suggesting you would stoop so low as anything at all but my point is the access has continued for a decade with no problems s it will be difficult to see a court easily supporting that (unusual), level of access being curtailed by a one-party decision.

You will need to take legal advice as you will need to apply to the court for a decision. In the face of his refusal NZIS, the Hague Convention etc etc all support the child staying in his country of residence (the UK in this case), until a court decides otherwise.

simonsi

I tend to think the child has a right to have ongoing contact with both parents if he wishes. Both parents may need to flex to achieve that, not always equally, depends how much they weight the child's best interests.

MrsFychan

agree totally, and the OP has put into place a way to achieve that by what they have written. Not ideal and not as often as each may like but the offer is there.
It's a shame this has arisen at such a late stage of the process

luvwelly

There is no such thing as constant contact when you live on the other side of the world. The salary you were quoting on the other thread is not going to allow regular flights back either.
How on earth could he come back if he hated it at 13 if you are the main carer?
Emigration is complicated, a divorced father who has maintained regular contact with his son is totally within his rights to object as you would be stunting their relationship big time....because you haven't lived in NZ yet, you don't realise how true this is....for instance flights into NZ tend to be cheaper than flights out of NZ....the 12 hour time difference etc etc

banski

jesus ok don't get your knickers in a twist thats the reason i'm writing on here so i can get as much knowlege as possible instead of just being blinded by this so called better life that keeps getting thrust in your face, I thought that was the point of the site, :s

BEVS

I know. We do get a bit sharp around the edges at times. Try to look past that at the info and experiences of others that best fit you.

MooMoo and J19fmm both have first hand experience. MooMoo has outlined in her post above what she needed to do to effect an agreement.
J19fmm on the other hand & after a long battle has had to wait until her son turned 16.

With regard to affording flights from NZ. This is an expensive business & something for you to factor in when doing your hypothetical cost of living figures. The flights are also mega long haul.

It is a shame for both you and your ex. Your son will probably wish to please you both. Not a good place to be.

I do hope this can be amicably resolved, whether you reach agreement or whether you wait the 3 years.