Colin in the middle

I did not say that or mean that so there you go with an assumption that was what I was saying when it was not.

I have a degree of confidence that Cheaper flights are not on the way and that this country is being destroyed by the Global market economy thats allowed ease of travel.

Much like you debucked me in another thread when I pointed out how WHVs and the ease of access to them is damaging to the livelyhoods of people who are not able to uproot at the drop of a hat like you are clearly able to do. Despite your qualifictions you still lack commitment and understanding to New Zealand which is what migration is all about.

Your reply confirms you lack of understanding.

lardyl

Hence I prefer Inductive reasoning to Retroduction and then Abductive reasoning (or is it the other way round??) - see my earlier post...........and before you ask, its my job to do so, so nah nah nah na na....
..wouldnt want to confuse: "after this, therefore because of this" with "with this, therefore because of this" so dont forget to get your "cum" and "post" straight before *you* post....hehe...
/extracts head from bottom having made a joke in logic/
Hey, my first PC was a programmable scientific calcualtor built with a kit from Cambridge and my second a clone of a US machine, also built from a kit, with a 6502 CPU and 4k of RAM, that predated the ZX80 (Z80 CPU) by a year or so and hence the ZX81 by a few years and yes I did own one of Sir Clive's babys, the QL, complete with dodgy tape drives.......perspective and responsibility come with age and experience it would appear.....
Didnt stop me from buying the QL "lemon" and spending ages trying to sort the hardware fault out on the UK101 even though it was the machine code monitor "eprom" that meant that it was faulty "as built"

lardyl

Spoony, probably preaching to the converted but believe me you really have to get alongside Kiwis to convince them that your quals, experience and skills mean something and get accepted. Unless your co. has a lot of influence over potential clients then you need to push yourself over "hard" to customers and network damn hard in order to get the reputation and respect that you have earned (and grown to expect) in the UK.
I'm in the middle of doing that at the moment and once you start to spell these basic things out and forget "what we did in the UK/Europe/wherever else" then people realise what you have to offer them. I'm suprised just how pushy I have become, and how my attitude has changed from self-depracation (really!), via overt over-confidence (as a reaction to the continual Kiwi put-downs/questionings) and has come back to a more reasonable view but with a pushy self-publicising overtone.....hope that makes sense.
Oh yeah, know about the New Scientist thing - we got a whole three pages and the journo still managed to get the real sources of the "work" wrong, got the back issues on that one plus the other little article that my supervisor did....ah the days in academia, easy life, no pressure, no accountability (well not much), loadsa beer, bliss........

uk+kiwi

Ouch!

Think many natives would fail here though too.

uk+kiwi

As does yours.

Colin in the middle

Maybe you should read the thread again.

So whats your view on the cheaper Flights market?

Dandy Dan

I really have no idea what you guys are going on about. But if we're talking about cheaper air fares and 'competition' I think it's just plain wrong. The good thing about NZ is that it is the easy laid back un-cluttered place that Europe and the west world isn't. In the main there's not too much fuss about having the right thing, labelled clothing, driving the right car etc and I think the more interference from outside spells the worse for NZ and this beautiful way of life.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I like things just the way they are. Any progress isn't necessarily good progress.

uk+kiwi

I don't need to read the thread again, I was referring to your lack of understanding of people (SpoonGuy) as opposed to your knowledge and opinions about the cheaper flight markets.

My FIL worked for Air NZ for 30 years, as a board level director before leaving about 10 years ago now, so I can therefore relate to many of the points you make about the NZ Aviation industry. (As an aside, I have always had very positive experiences with Air NZ).

Hmm, my view on cheaper flights in NZ? I agree with a lot of the points raised here.

Competition would be good (monopolies are generally not the best service providers), although I also have a conscience so question the real cost and longer term effects of products/services that are 'generally too good to be true'.

Having said that, I also think it would be good to make airline travel in general (domestic & international) more accessible to the average kiwi, which would not only have a positive impact on the 'intelligence/outlook' of the country as a whole (through additional culture exposure etc) but also on tourism, a major revenue stream for NZ.

Also, as I think you mentioned, I agree that the population of NZ just will not sustain the $1 type flights that have been suggested. Health & safety of the planes would also be a concern, although I have no knowledge as to whether this is a concern or not in reality.

I think the differing viewpoints sometimes come down to a battle between 'cheaper flights will be fantastic for our family' and 'it just can't/won't/shouldn't happen or be like this because of x and y morale/business reason'.

Personally I suspect that competition will increase and prices will come down. But longer term $1 internal flights, I doubt it. Unless there's a fuel breakthrough or some other innovation that comes to fruition. That would be cool, but another topic altogether.

And finally, I really dislike the industry talk of '$1 flights' when actually, the number of taxes and cost of those taxes have risen extortionately over the past few years. I've read about luggage being charged for now, all so that the headline price of flights can appear as low as possible. Personally, I'd like to see only the 'all up, fully inclusive' prices quoted including taxes and luggage (although I admit is is not the fairest system to all), because I refuse to pay £12 (as per last holiday) for a really disgusting stale sandwich for example on these 'cheap flights'. Oh and an additional £5 each one way, if a family actually wants to sit together. I'm sure many parents would be delighted to have their fidgety and wingey toddlers sitting next to someone else!

Colin in the middle

Thats more like it

Thats one of my biggest concerns, the safety record of Qanats and Air New Zealand with the exception of Erebus has been second to none. Recently there have been a few highly publised incidents the most spectacular being Eagle Air at Blenheim. My concern is thes kind of incidents will be come more common or at worst result in a serious accident.

spoonguy

Be polite, take everyone on the points of their argument and avoid personal attacks please. I dont want to discuss my personal life with you. I dont agree with you on certain points but so far in this thread all ive done is discuss global warming issues that are not specific to new zealand at all. Ive tried to be light hearted with you and i still receive condescension.

Lighten up and discuss the flights, I dont need to justify myself to you and have better manners than to ask you to do the same.

spoonguy

I'm on R and D for now so all i have to do is boss jr kiwis around. I usually expect people to take me on my merits and wouldnt expect my experience and quals to get me any further than through the door. I find kiwis very accepting people and am hoping if i do the job and do it well then it wont matter where I came from. That said, just about all the kiwis working there now used to work with me in one office or another before

Colin in the middle

Leaf out of own book then

Always wondered why it was called GLOBALwarming

kiwiflyer

Cheap Flights? Next we will have supermarkets selling petrol

lardyl

Seems that you are lucky in your company and that you aren't working in a field where personal recommendation is the key to selling your product to clients (unless I have misunderstood your post) - that is the case in my area where these relationships have to be built up over time, the last person to take my role had a year to do this and he was a Kiwi and had many years of experience in NZ - hopefully I will get some slack cut so I can try to do the same.
Many Kiwis are accepting but there are others in the professions (medical, ancillary to medicne and scientific/technical) that aren't at all - many see the skilled, qualified immigrant coming over as a threat and actively resist them.
I've heard that this can happen even from the point of being a voice of dissent on the interview panel - and that came from a Kiwi who sat on the panels and noted it in their colleagues and also from a friend in the same technical organisation and found that their mentor was also not mentoring but just covering their own @rse and putting their "junior" down. Maybe this is an expression of the old "tall poppy" cliche that is used by Kiwis to describe some people's attitudes to their successful compatriots.
My own experience is that even my work colleagues have to be convinved further of my skills than even my former business rivals required in the UK - maybe its because I am being managed by people with no technical expertise in the field whereas in the UK the management structure of the whole organisation was technical top-to-bottom.
I've also heard from several sources within the medical and allied professions of people being actively bullied and attacked as they tried to apply best practice to their jobs or even be accepted by their peers, sometimes this takes the form of overt defensiveness, a trait that has been expressed by others posting on these forums, the "put up or shut up/leave brigade"!
Anyway good luck in your new office!

Sue

I don't normally do this but wanted to let you know that we are on top of things with regard to someone who seemed to think it was okay to join this forum with multiple aliases. Well its not okay. To dishonestly present yourself to others is not fair to the other members of this site. The person concerned has been banned, his aliases were:
Colin in the middle
southerncomforts
kiwiflyer
Kiwiflyer 2
Troll

As the above seems to have participated in this thread in various guises I feel it is appropriate to close this thread. To the OP please feel free to start another thread on this topic if you wish, sorry for the inconvenience that this person has caused.