ann m

Ain't that the truth !

cricket1again

Do you think you're finding reasons for talking yourself out of not going back to the UK? You know....a kind of self sabotage to manage your guilt???
Not that I'm any kind of psychologist......my God, I think someone would have shot me long before now if I was.
But seriously, have you listened to the strength of your own argument?
I'm guessing that as you're the decision maker in the home, you haven't got much of an objective opinion to balance your own so it's all down to you right?

Have you talked this through with an objective third party outside the home and really laid your cards on the table? I'm asking because really, you are putting obstacles in your way where they aren't any.
The catchment areas of UK schools might be a small consideration but don't you have the luxury of pretty much choosing where you live? And even then, the nearest school is forced to take your child if there are no places elsewhere.

Come on, stop arguing with yourself. You run a business in the UK from the US. That means it's transportable. You could choose a reasonable area to live in the UK and the chances are the school would have a good mix of children, good and bad, you can't avoid it.


Just my humble opinion of course. It hurts to jump from one comfort zone to another, of course it does, but it hurts a lot more if you regret not doing it.

rebs

School placements can be a huge issue in some areas of the country.

The Local Education Authority (LEA) has a duty to provide a school place for a child, but it does not have to be the nearest school at all - it could be in any school within the LEA.

Strictly speaking, if the only available spaces within the LEA are in the nearest school, then that is what you would get.

However, what is more likely is that if the nearest school is a 'good' school, it may well be over-subscribed. The spaces available within an LEA are more likely to be in under-subscribed schools - in turn, likely to be under-performing schools.

cricket1again

I honestly believe that today, parents cannot expect schools or teachers to carry the full brunt of underperformance by the LEA. While you're all arguing about the politics and passing the buck, you might as well accept the situation as it is, then back up any shortfall by self teaching wherever you can.
The internet alllows parents to give their children far more educational tools than school does anyway.
Speaking bluntly, as I do sometimes, why bother banging your head against a brick wall that won't budge. Go round it.

If the system is what you've got, that's what you've got. Complain and moan by all means but grab the ball anyway and teach your own kids whatever they're not getting in school.
It can't just be down to the teachers.

And don't have a go at me. I don 't like teachers much anyway because of all the whinging they do but on this point at least, you can't expect caviar from a crabs bum. Sorry if that offends. Bugger it, no I'm not sorry. Meant every word.

ukintexas

I have never heard that expression, but you can bet your bottom Dollar I'll be finding a circumstance under which I can use it! Very funny.

Good point you make Cricket1, but I'm not sure how practical it is to truly pick up the slack if the school is dire. You have got my brain ticking on this though as you make perfect sense. Suppose the difficulty with the underperforming schools is the "attitude" that can sometimes be felt amongst teachers and pupils in that its acceptable somehow to underperform. Maybe that's more of an issue than the educaiton itself, which as you say can be propped up.

Also, in relation to your previous post about sabbotaging my own path so to speak, I see what you're saying there as well. Difficult to pitch reality against fear I suppose and although there is definitely a reality attached to my concerns about the education of my children, the fear attached to the whole decision itself likely amplifies it.

Anyway, still about the crabs bum comment - I am so gonna be chuckling about that for the rest of the evening!

cricket1again

Just re read my post. Did I sound grumpy? Hope so. I was described at school as a write off, no hoper, waste of space and loser. By the teachers. I left school with nothing. I was bullied all through primary (we were a poor family living in a posh area) for being less well off than the other kids, and i was labelled as dyslexic and a lost cause for never being at school. (got kept at home to look after my bothers and sisters while parents tried to find work).

Today, I own a successful fashion design and manufacturing couture business, a home on the Gold Coast, moving back to the UK to buy one there too and establish business.
I'm a writer and business educator and I own two commercial websites.

So much for school eh? Education and learning sometimes only begins when school ends. Did for me anyway. I think it's OK for the basics but if parents can expose their children to extra learning and support beyond school, that's an absolute bonus. I understand time might be an issue but more often than not, it's a case of organising time more efficiently and kicking the kids into the right frame of mind.
Hey and also, Pakistani children live in some rough areas and go to the roughest schools in the UK, yet they excel. Find out how they do it. They are a credit to their culture and families so something in the mix is working within the arena of school and LEA politics.
Glad I made you laugh UKinTexas.

Bevm

Do schools in the UK encourage parents to volunteer? There used to be loads of parent volunteer work in Ontario, but in BC the unions managed to make it illegal. Parents can't do much but raise money.

If volunteers are allowed, going into the school a few hours a week can make a difference, besides getting an inside look at what's going on. Helping kids use the library, being an assistant in a classroom so the teacher can teach. Helping to prepare materials. And, of course, supplement with what we offer our kids at home.

It needn't all be slog. There are some great educational computer programs and games. One of our sons struggled with spelling, so we got him a program called Spelling Bee, and played it with him.

We all want our kids in a wonder school, but Cricket's right, if that's not an option, there are sometimes things we can do.

Bev

ukintexas

Very good point Bevm, thanks for that. My recollection of the volunteering in the junior school my kids were at in the UK before we moved was that people had to be "official" assistants of some kind. I know in my area here in the US it's a massive resource for the schools which obviously contributes to their great curriculum and results.
Definitely something I should bear in mind though for all the reasons you state. Thanks for that.

cricket1again

Just a point that might help........at least it's what I've always found anyway. You cannot spare your children the realities of living in the real world. Nor should you try otherwise when they reach adulthood they won't know how to survive.

Truly, I have honestly found that effective parenting is the most protective and preventative measure you can offer as a safeguard to some of the influences that are out there. Even in the best areas and best schools.
If you can arm them with good standards at home, sound principles and a solid routine as well as the knowledge of what's right and wrong, it doesn't matter who they meet, they will be fine.

I have had my own experiences with one of mine meeting up with a group of very unsavoury friends. It was awful but both she and I got through it. Amazingly! I look back sometimes and wonder how they never pulled her down with them and how I didn't have a nervous breakdown. It ended up in the national newspapers, we remained anonymous of course, but when the story broke of how parents had no rights to control their children being enticed away by predatory influences, I'm not kidding, it went all the way through Parliament.

Anyway, the moral of the tale is, she survived admirably because she explained in her words 'I never forgot what you taught me Mum'.

Gotta go and get the tissues now, excuse me.

Heljinder

Hi Cricket. You're right in many ways there, but it's very hard for parents to see their child go to an under performing school.

Having said that, my hubby went to the worst school in his area in the 70's. He survived it purely and simply because he was very driven to succeed, and also had a lot of parental support. Certain subjects weren't taught at his school, so he took himself off to the local college after school where he took exams in other subjects.

He left school and college with 19 'O' and 'A' levels all at grades A and B, then went on to study medicine at the London University attached to Guy's and St. Thomas's Hospital. He's now a GP and a Consultant in Public Health Medicine, with a Business Degree.

So yes, you can get around the system if you're driven and have parental support. But, bright, driven kids can also be hindered by the disruptive element that frequent the under performing schools, and this where a lot of the problems lie.

I'd shift heaven and earth to avoid having my kids go to a rotten school. I'd rather teach them at home.

I'm leaving Australia in two weeks, after spending a year here, to go back to England. The one thing that's making it so difficult to return is that I'm walking away from the opportunity to put my boys into one of the best schools in WA, because I can't stomach living here for what could be a good 18 years. The school facilities are amazing, the buildings are beautiful and the setting is perfect. I feel sick.

My son was in a private school back home, but hated it. He did very well, but they pushed him to the brink. I've now got him a place at a high performing state school which is 30 mins outside of our catchment area (we still have our house in England). His little brother didn't get a place because of high demand for his intake year, but I'm waiting on an appeal decision which will be made this week. He's at the top of the waiting list, so he should get a place, but I'm not banking on it.

We could have a very cushy number here in Aus, huge house with pool, amazing school, long sunny days, easier work life for hubby. The driving force behind us going back is that there is only the four of us here. Strange as it may sound, and some people won't understand it, but I feel insecure here without my extended family and old friends. These people love our boys nearly as much as us, and I want my sons growing up around them. But, because education is so important to me, I've considered staying here purely because of the schooling they could have, but I just can't bring myself to do it. So am I failing them by taking them away from what could be a wonderful opportunity??

We go back to some uncertainty. Hubby won't have a job to go back to, but hopefully it won't be too long before he gets sorted. We're saving like crazy to keep afloat for a few months. He'll also probably have to live away from us for a while, which we did for 3 years prior to coming here, and it was awful. Thankfully, we still have our house, furniture and cars to go back to.

We've had a lovely time in Aus and seen wonderful things, but it's also been fraught with homesickness, indecisiveness and guilt, which I could have done without.

I think I've rambled on enough! But this is a really helpful thread which struck a chord with me. Everyone has been very supportive of each others situation whatever that may be, instead of it descending into a slagging session, which seems to happen all too often on BE.

Heljinder

ukintexas

Hi Heljinder, what an eloquent addition to this thread! Completely sums up how I feel about the education situation, and the decision as a whole to yank my kids from one place to another (again!). The family/friends thing is the main push for us to return - I know what you mean about feeling insecure without that - I explain it to people as feeling vulnerable.
The "opportunity" you/I are looking at taking our kids away from is also something that plays on my mind. However, in all other aspects of my life (both work and personal) I often talk about how you can only make decisions with the facts you have in front of you, and the based on the moment/time that you are in. Trying to make decisions on the crystal ball of what might, or might not be, is impossible. Goodness knows why then, I'm trying to go against this way of making decisions with this particular one - not sure what that's all about
I went to a good school, yet didn't take advantage of it, so I suppose that is the same as going to a bad one and bucking the trend. Guess we are all looking for the 100% guarantee that we're making the right decision when unfortunately that's not going to happen
For me, this thread continues to be really valuable in providing me with other people's viewpoints and opinions - it is genuinely helping.
Thank you to all who have contributed.

cricket1again

I feel for all of you that are going through such a dilemma, it's so hard I know.
To add my own view, for what it's worth, I learned long ago, in the school playground in fact while I was getting my hair torn out for having a second dress, there are no safety nets and no guarantees for children in school.
Life is what you create for yourself. You invent who you want to be, what you want to do and where you want to go.

Your path in life should not rest on politics or too many external influences, although obviously you can and should choose to be in a good place as far as you can.

I found my direction early in life and I have lived a fantastic life with no real schooling and absolutely zero family support. I totally love the sense that I have control over my own life and direction.
I found my way forwards, and I really was a hopeless case as a child because of no parental guidance, but I found I was good at one particular subject and it set me on a path where I have only ever succeeded.

There is no magic wand but if I could offer a single piece of advice to parents concerned about their children, I would say DO NOT RELY ON SCHOOLS only for their development.
Find something they are good at, build on it, give them confidence and support all the way. Grow and nurture their aims at home and champion them all the way to finish line.
If you read or study any successful person and how they achieved their success, you will find that behind them was failure in unexpected quarters, yet success and support through one or two key role models.

I had the best Art teacher at secondary school and he pushed me to the top. I've flown ever since.
Try not to focus too much on all the problems you think are out there and try and focus more on the bigger picture and solutions you can find for yourself.

Big hug to you all.

ann m

Well said! I too went to a decent school, but did not take full advantage of that fact (academically speaking). I know I worry about my kids and their schooling. There is only so much you can do - life and reality kick in somewhere. Decent guidance is vital, and even then, you can only do what you can do !

cricket1again

I should just clarify before I get burnt at the stake (again), schools do appear to have become a breeding ground for some worrying activity and I can understand why parents are worried.
But we cannot expect teachers to manage their job of teaching as well as manage a whole host of social problems that currently exist in society today.
Therefore worrying about which school might be best or worst, may not be the best way to think.

If it was me, thankfully my children are young adults, I'd be trying to take a more realistic and objective view. You can't change the mass of problems and politics currently affecting schools, and in some ways, the politics between teachers, government and the LEA are often the worst problem. It used to make me so angry when I'd go into school and be given excuses after excuses as to why my son wasn't making the grade.
In the end, I decided to leave them all to play their game of petty politics and I got my son a really good home tutor to bring up to scratch. It worked and it wasn't expensive. He had to sacrifice his football one night a week but it was worth it. I ran a business around my children so i was a hands on mum.

Don't wait for someone to fix the problems where educating your children are concerned. We'll end up with a nation of dimwits. Jesus, look what we've got for politicians now.

You, as parents, can take the reins and prop up any areas that aren't getting full attention at school.
This will cut the teachers some slack (so they can drink more tea in the staff room and complain to their union about the lack of McVities biscuits ) and you will know that you are keeping your child on the right track.
Just my opinion but as a mum who has now got two young fledglings off thye branch and flying with no problems so far, I hope it helps.