Originally Posted by Bevm

Perhaps it's a matter of where in the UK we live? Some areas are bound to be more stressful, and that's when people get rude.
The book thing is because they changed a law -- or something. It used to be that new books had to be sold at cover price in the UK. Now they can be discounted and it's generally driven down actual prices.

Bev

Originally Posted by Englishman43

After having read through a lot of the different Countries forums here on the site I'd say at least 5 of your bad points seem to be global - not to say they aren't happening in Britain as well :-( .

Originally Posted by dunroving

Yes, but the point of clarificatioon I made before making my list was that (in my opinion) these changes have been greater in the UK over the 25 years, compared to the rate of these changes in other countries.

For example, the UK has gone from 10% of school-leavers attending university to almost 50% (or over 50% in Scotland) - I don't think many other countries have changed that rapidly. Now they are reaping the whirlwind - the only way to sustain this level is to ramp up fees, and all it buys for a lot of people is a license into the sort of job that 25 years ago, required only GCSEs or A-levels.

Originally Posted by dunroving

Yes, but the point of clarificatioon I made before making my list was that (in my opinion) these changes have been greater in the UK over the 25 years, compared to the rate of these changes in other countries.

For example, the UK has gone from 10% of school-leavers attending university to almost 50% (or over 50% in Scotland) - I don't think many other countries have changed that rapidly. Now they are reaping the whirlwind - the only way to sustain this level is to ramp up fees, and all it buys for a lot of people is a license into the sort of job that 25 years ago, required only GCSEs or A-levels.

Originally Posted by aviva

Are they well-educated when they get out with degrees or are they just meaningless piece of paper? Do they carry weight outside of UK. I thought I read that you said that the students can often get credit for classes that they don't pass.

Originally Posted by dunroving

1) Lack of job opportunities (and more competition because of the economy - loads of fresh PhDs from last year and the year before still looking for positions).
2) I'm getting to "that age" where institutions prefer to hire a younger, cheaper option. The age thing is/was less of an issue in higher education, but these days, the economy is driving everything and a fresh PhD graduate causes a smaller bump in the salary budget, even if he/she will take 5-10 years to get into shape.
3) I'm getting a little tired of trying - I balance the question of whether I can work another 12-15 years in UK higher education and retain my sanity with the opposing question of do I have the energy for another fresh start in the States ... and then I either talk to a US colleague or go over there for a conference and am reminded of the vast difference in mindset and my compatibility with the way my profession is run over there - i.e., they let you do your frickin' job, instead of creating hours of mindless emails and other busy-work.

... because of my doubts about settling into another fresh start, I have been restricting my applications to areas of the US I am familiar with (i.e., southeast, east coast), which also reduces my chances.

I actually interviewed for a position last year and came second. From inside information it was a stitch-up job - I know that sounds like sour grapes, but I also know the facts and it's true. Because I know I was the strongest candidate by far, it knocked my confidence a fair bit.

I may just back off for a year and try again. You can spend too much mental energy on wanting to be somewhere else, and you end up wishing your life away.

Originally Posted by dunroving

In my opinion, the standard of GCSEs, A-levels and degrees is lower than it used to be.

The assessment workload for one "module" in the UK is about one third of what it is in the US and yes, students can fail a whole "module" (class) but be allowed to carry it (is recorded as a Pass) if they have passed enough other classes at certain grades.

The other thing I don't like about UK higher education is the lack of what is called "academic freedom" in the States. I guess it is analagous to the national curriculum in schools - there is very little leeway for individual interpretation of what to teach and how to teach it, and academics are dictated to by administrative staff (i.e., people with no training in teaching, only in management, procedure, etc.).

Perhaps the biggest disappointment since I returned is the change I have seen in myself as a result of working in this system - I am much less enthusisatic about my job and have become the epitome of the whinging Pom. I work on changing it every day, but it's like the Chinese water torture - drip, drip, drip ... bureaucracy and dogma wear away at your sense of innovation and enthusiasm.

Originally Posted by dunroving

Noticeable changes (good):
Greater socioeconomic mobility (yes, even with 20+ years of conservative and "New labour/neo-conservative" government!)
Just about all the other good changes are the same the world over, such as greater individual wealth, more entertainment offerings, etc. I read on here a lot about better shopping choices, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rat's *ss about shopping or buying "stuff".

Noticeable changes (bad):
Lack of civility - what I call the "Eastenders" effect
The whole world and his wife goes to university - dumbest idea Tony Blair ever came up with, IMO (but also the smartest - he knew exactly what he was doing)
Obsession with consumption, lack of individual responsibility for personal debt, the creation of a nouveau riche/have and have-not dichotomy based purely on the ridiculous housing boom from late 90's, that has left some undeserving people much better off financially, and others either unable to get on the ladder or saddled with huge mortgage debt (i.e., moi).
A voting pattern driven more by a cult of personality than political values and understanding.
A mind-blowing obsession with bureacracy and record-keeping, reporting, accountability reviews, none of which actually improve professional practice.
An education and higher education system that is going to the dogs
A prevailing "can't-do", or obstructive attitude to innovation and independence of thought (coming back from the States, the contrast is huge - I just got off the phone with a colleague in the US, discussing the development of a patentable device, and it is so refreshing to feed off the positivity).

Originally Posted by Beedubya

I must say that I was quite amazed that my niece studied drama at University and is now a drama teacher, didn't this used to be a college type education, in fact didn't there used to be teacher training colleges?

When I was at school in ye olden days, the only people who were even encouraged to apply to university where the absolute cream of the crop, the real brainiac types..........

Originally Posted by Gabgoeshome

That must be beyond frustrating .

Thank you for explaining .I am not at all familiar with your profession but I understand the differences in how jobs work/ethics UK/US .

One thing that shocked me here in the US was how quickly (if they like you ) they hire you !!!!

No endless interview after interview ,role playing etc ....I hear in your post that you feel unsettled ,that is a tough one .

You are right, I would back off for a while also ...a break from deciding might just attract the right choice when you least expect it

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills

Yes it was I looked at going to teacher training college.
Nursing too has become a university degree, it used to be you went to school at the local hospital in groups of students and had blocks of time in school and on the ward. Now they don't get much ward time in comparison and my friend (who trained with me) says they come in as a fully fledged RN and are flippin clueless, no bedside manner at all. All those bedpans and bed baths made for good basic nursing skills that newer RN's don't get.

Originally Posted by Derrygal

You don't work where I work. I have worked for a Fortune 500 company for almost 12 years. The interview was horrendous (actually I had 3 interviews for the same position), role playing, the whole enchilada - and I've been told it's much worse now. They took almost 3 months to get back to me!!

Originally Posted by Derrygal

You don't work where I work. I have worked for a Fortune 500 company for almost 12 years. The interview was horrendous (actually I had 3 interviews for the same position), role playing, the whole enchilada - and I've been told it's much worse now. They took almost 3 months to get back to me!!

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills

Nursing too has become a university degree, it used to be you went to school at the local hospital in groups of students and had blocks of time in school and on the ward. Now they don't get much ward time in comparison and my friend (who trained with me) says they come in as a fully fledged RN and are flippin clueless, no bedside manner at all. All those bedpans and bed baths made for good basic nursing skills that newer RN's don't get.

Originally Posted by Grayling

That is a worldwide phenomenon......Most countries in the world have a similar system for nurse training. It is not unique to the UK.

If fact it happened in the US long before the UK