Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Jan 9th 2011, 9:11 pm
#1
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Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Recently passed our 1 year anniversary of being back in Blighty (1 year, 1 month) after 6 years in Canada and was pondering last night over a glass of wine what's changed in that time. Now we're not talking the obvious things that we can read about in the papers or see on TV such as crime or the cost of living, rather the more subtle cultural changes.
The Uk's always had a fairly hectic pace of life compared to places such as Canada but it does seem to be even more rushed now. Makes you wonder if all the multi-tasking that's supposed to be such an asset means that people are trying to do so much at once that nothing gets done. Could be me getting old but I had a prime example in a shop yesterday where we needed to get a refund. The guy serving us was trying to do a few other things at the same time and we ended up repeating our address and phone number four times.
Getting your phone calls and e-mails returned- thought it was just me but DW has found the same. I'm in IT (can hear the commiserations from here) and often need to contact customers by either phone or e-mail and most of the time it takes multiple calls or e-mails to get a response. Even found the same thing within my own place of work.
Politeness. Must be an age thing but folks don't seem as polite as they used to be- had doors closed in my face and been walked into on numerous occasions, admittedly mostly by folks of all ages absorbed in their iPod/iPhone.
Customer service has taken one heck of a nose dive- especially anything by phone.
Be interesting to hear if anyone else has found any subtle changes in their absence. Starting to wonder if it's me that's changed in my six years away and that reverse culture shock still hasn't quite gone. Not moaning here; just making some observations.
The Uk's always had a fairly hectic pace of life compared to places such as Canada but it does seem to be even more rushed now. Makes you wonder if all the multi-tasking that's supposed to be such an asset means that people are trying to do so much at once that nothing gets done. Could be me getting old but I had a prime example in a shop yesterday where we needed to get a refund. The guy serving us was trying to do a few other things at the same time and we ended up repeating our address and phone number four times.
Getting your phone calls and e-mails returned- thought it was just me but DW has found the same. I'm in IT (can hear the commiserations from here) and often need to contact customers by either phone or e-mail and most of the time it takes multiple calls or e-mails to get a response. Even found the same thing within my own place of work.
Politeness. Must be an age thing but folks don't seem as polite as they used to be- had doors closed in my face and been walked into on numerous occasions, admittedly mostly by folks of all ages absorbed in their iPod/iPhone.
Customer service has taken one heck of a nose dive- especially anything by phone.
Be interesting to hear if anyone else has found any subtle changes in their absence. Starting to wonder if it's me that's changed in my six years away and that reverse culture shock still hasn't quite gone. Not moaning here; just making some observations.
Last edited by Ciderman; Jan 9th 2011 at 9:15 pm.
Jan 9th 2011, 10:41 pm
#2
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
No, it's like a different planet, never mind a different country.
Jan 9th 2011, 10:57 pm
#3
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Jan 10th 2011, 12:11 am
#4
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Location: Back in England
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
As we were away for 30+ years, obviously not, and I'm not sure we have much way to compare because life was so different back then.
But I can't say I've noticed much difference between Canada recently and the UK now as far as manners and rush. Some people are rude, but most are polite, I find. Some "servants" are rushed and awkward, others smooth and competent.
But, veering off subject a bit, why is it that here in Spain, where we're escaping January (17 degrees and sunny
) the supermarket has a) 2-3 Litre refills for things like spray cleaner, liquid soap and such b) cheap tissues that pop up when you take one and c) compact fluorescent bulbs that give brilliant light, whereas in these respects the UK is still in the dark ages? They were all common in Canada.
Someone said that the refills is because people live in small houses, but they do in Spain.
It's a rip-off and unecological to be buying a new spray bottle every time one empties. Same for soft soap dispenser bottles. And there is no need for compact fluorescents to be dim, and especially for them to be slow to come up to brightness.
Someone's making a profit out of it. It's the only explanation.
Bev
But I can't say I've noticed much difference between Canada recently and the UK now as far as manners and rush. Some people are rude, but most are polite, I find. Some "servants" are rushed and awkward, others smooth and competent.
But, veering off subject a bit, why is it that here in Spain, where we're escaping January (17 degrees and sunny
) the supermarket has a) 2-3 Litre refills for things like spray cleaner, liquid soap and such b) cheap tissues that pop up when you take one and c) compact fluorescent bulbs that give brilliant light, whereas in these respects the UK is still in the dark ages? They were all common in Canada.Someone said that the refills is because people live in small houses, but they do in Spain.
It's a rip-off and unecological to be buying a new spray bottle every time one empties. Same for soft soap dispenser bottles. And there is no need for compact fluorescents to be dim, and especially for them to be slow to come up to brightness.
Someone's making a profit out of it. It's the only explanation.
Bev
Jan 10th 2011, 12:28 am
#5
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
The UK isn't the same as when I left, but Oz was not the same when I left as it was when I arrived either (and not for the better).
Nothing stays the same it's just a questions of whether the changes are large enough to affect how you feel about a place. As for customer service, I've found it largely similar in the private sector (if we're talking about phone conversations), infinitely better dealing with Gov agencies here, their level of politeness and offering options leaves Oz dead in the water. Refunds and returns are far far easier to get done here.
I've found marketing in general very 'pushy' here compared to Oz though.
Nothing stays the same it's just a questions of whether the changes are large enough to affect how you feel about a place. As for customer service, I've found it largely similar in the private sector (if we're talking about phone conversations), infinitely better dealing with Gov agencies here, their level of politeness and offering options leaves Oz dead in the water. Refunds and returns are far far easier to get done here.
I've found marketing in general very 'pushy' here compared to Oz though.
Jan 10th 2011, 5:42 am
#6
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Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Recently passed our 1 year anniversary of being back in Blighty (1 year, 1 month) after 6 years in Canada and was pondering last night over a glass of wine what's changed in that time. Now we're not talking the obvious things that we can read about in the papers or see on TV such as crime or the cost of living, rather the more subtle cultural changes.
The Uk's always had a fairly hectic pace of life compared to places such as Canada but it does seem to be even more rushed now. Makes you wonder if all the multi-tasking that's supposed to be such an asset means that people are trying to do so much at once that nothing gets done. Could be me getting old but I had a prime example in a shop yesterday where we needed to get a refund. The guy serving us was trying to do a few other things at the same time and we ended up repeating our address and phone number four times.
Getting your phone calls and e-mails returned- thought it was just me but DW has found the same. I'm in IT (can hear the commiserations from here) and often need to contact customers by either phone or e-mail and most of the time it takes multiple calls or e-mails to get a response. Even found the same thing within my own place of work.
Politeness. Must be an age thing but folks don't seem as polite as they used to be- had doors closed in my face and been walked into on numerous occasions, admittedly mostly by folks of all ages absorbed in their iPod/iPhone.
Customer service has taken one heck of a nose dive- especially anything by phone.
Be interesting to hear if anyone else has found any subtle changes in their absence. Starting to wonder if it's me that's changed in my six years away and that reverse culture shock still hasn't quite gone. Not moaning here; just making some observations.
The Uk's always had a fairly hectic pace of life compared to places such as Canada but it does seem to be even more rushed now. Makes you wonder if all the multi-tasking that's supposed to be such an asset means that people are trying to do so much at once that nothing gets done. Could be me getting old but I had a prime example in a shop yesterday where we needed to get a refund. The guy serving us was trying to do a few other things at the same time and we ended up repeating our address and phone number four times.
Getting your phone calls and e-mails returned- thought it was just me but DW has found the same. I'm in IT (can hear the commiserations from here) and often need to contact customers by either phone or e-mail and most of the time it takes multiple calls or e-mails to get a response. Even found the same thing within my own place of work.
Politeness. Must be an age thing but folks don't seem as polite as they used to be- had doors closed in my face and been walked into on numerous occasions, admittedly mostly by folks of all ages absorbed in their iPod/iPhone.
Customer service has taken one heck of a nose dive- especially anything by phone.
Be interesting to hear if anyone else has found any subtle changes in their absence. Starting to wonder if it's me that's changed in my six years away and that reverse culture shock still hasn't quite gone. Not moaning here; just making some observations.
Many more places to eat out, more places to get good coffee, much better customer service; in person and by phone, more people wearings shorts
, much more choice in the grocery stores, faster pace of life generally, i.e. having to run with your luggage to jump on the train, more outdoor furniture in the gardens.I'm sure there must be negative things too, just that I didn't notice them (too blinded by the beauty of the west country
Jan 10th 2011, 5:52 am
#7
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
I chat with my parents back in England weekly and on occasion will start moaning about being here ( US ) and how much better things are at home. They will then remind me how things are now which is not the same as when I left 13 years ago and it's nothing like the place I left behind.
Actually was thinking a while back that when I left I knew very few people with home computers and nobody with a cell phone. Just those two items alone, with everything that goes along with them, have made a profound difference to society everywhere so my remembrance of " Pre gadget Blighty " is of a place that doesn't exist anymore.
I love to read about how you are all finding things when you move back because I know when I do I'm in for quite a few surprises !
Actually was thinking a while back that when I left I knew very few people with home computers and nobody with a cell phone. Just those two items alone, with everything that goes along with them, have made a profound difference to society everywhere so my remembrance of " Pre gadget Blighty " is of a place that doesn't exist anymore.
I love to read about how you are all finding things when you move back because I know when I do I'm in for quite a few surprises !
Jan 10th 2011, 7:58 am
#8
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
We left 5 years ago ,my Dad keeps telling me that SO much has changed in that time
Mainly he is amazed at what he is being told he can't do anymore , laws etc... what you need a form for ...
My Dad is 64 ,I am wondering if it is just the last 5 or if he is lumping ALL of the upsetting changes he has had to deal with over the last 30 ????
For me ,I guess I will have to wait and see .
Mainly he is amazed at what he is being told he can't do anymore , laws etc... what you need a form for ...
My Dad is 64 ,I am wondering if it is just the last 5 or if he is lumping ALL of the upsetting changes he has had to deal with over the last 30 ????
For me ,I guess I will have to wait and see .
Jan 10th 2011, 10:23 am
#9
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
We have been back 5 months and were away 10 years.
I have found heaps of changes.
Bad:
Definitely people are ruder. People tut and complain when I am struggling up/down stairs with a toddler in a buggy but rarely help. (surprisingly it usually young blacks dudes who are the most helpful, with middle aged white women being the most impatient).
Doors rarely held open.
Loads of litter and chewing gum.
Everything but everything seems to be on a premium pay telephone number.
Traffic galore.
At work there was a lot less friendliness as so many people work remotely there is little sense of community.
People seem a lot more distrustful in dealings- perhaps too many scams?
Good:
Choice and on line shopping is fab- it was almost non existent when we left.
More effort on recycling
Books are massively cheaper than I remember.
I have found heaps of changes.
Bad:
Definitely people are ruder. People tut and complain when I am struggling up/down stairs with a toddler in a buggy but rarely help. (surprisingly it usually young blacks dudes who are the most helpful, with middle aged white women being the most impatient).
Doors rarely held open.
Loads of litter and chewing gum.
Everything but everything seems to be on a premium pay telephone number.
Traffic galore.
At work there was a lot less friendliness as so many people work remotely there is little sense of community.
People seem a lot more distrustful in dealings- perhaps too many scams?
Good:
Choice and on line shopping is fab- it was almost non existent when we left.
More effort on recycling
Books are massively cheaper than I remember.
Jan 10th 2011, 10:32 am
#10
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Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Dorset England.
Posts: 676
Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
We have been back 5 months and were away 10 years.
I have found heaps of changes.
Bad:
Definitely people are ruder. People tut and complain when I am struggling up/down stairs with a toddler in a buggy but rarely help. (surprisingly it usually young blacks dudes who are the most helpful, with middle aged white women being the most impatient).
Doors rarely held open.
Loads of litter and chewing gum.
Everything but everything seems to be on a premium pay telephone number.
Traffic galore.
At work there was a lot less friendliness as so many people work remotely there is little sense of community.
People seem a lot more distrustful in dealings- perhaps too many scams?
Good:
Choice and on line shopping is fab- it was almost non existent when we left.
More effort on recycling
Books are massively cheaper than I remember.
I have found heaps of changes.
Bad:
Definitely people are ruder. People tut and complain when I am struggling up/down stairs with a toddler in a buggy but rarely help. (surprisingly it usually young blacks dudes who are the most helpful, with middle aged white women being the most impatient).
Doors rarely held open.
Loads of litter and chewing gum.
Everything but everything seems to be on a premium pay telephone number.
Traffic galore.
At work there was a lot less friendliness as so many people work remotely there is little sense of community.
People seem a lot more distrustful in dealings- perhaps too many scams?
Good:
Choice and on line shopping is fab- it was almost non existent when we left.
More effort on recycling
Books are massively cheaper than I remember.
Only asking ,as that is where I left from ...if you don't want to answer no problem
I am glad to hear the on line shopping is better
Your perspective in the workplace was interesting also .
Jan 10th 2011, 11:33 pm
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Perhaps it's a matter of where in the UK we live? Some areas are bound to be more stressful, and that's when people get rude.
The book thing is because they changed a law -- or something. It used to be that new books had to be sold at cover price in the UK. Now they can be discounted and it's generally driven down actual prices.
Bev
The book thing is because they changed a law -- or something. It used to be that new books had to be sold at cover price in the UK. Now they can be discounted and it's generally driven down actual prices.
Bev
Jan 11th 2011, 6:28 am
#12
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Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Well, I'm 25 years older than when I left, and so is the UK - so my perspective as a 50+ year old is different than if I were 20+ years old (as I was when I left the UK). Also, the UK has changed a lot in 25 years. Some of these changes are the same the world over (more technology, etc., for example). Other changes are either specific to the UK, or the UK has changed more rapidly than, say the States (where I spent most of my time).
Noticeable changes (good):
Greater socioeconomic mobility (yes, even with 20+ years of conservative and "New labour/neo-conservative" government!)
Just about all the other good changes are the same the world over, such as greater individual wealth, more entertainment offerings, etc. I read on here a lot about better shopping choices, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rat's *ss about shopping or buying "stuff".
Noticeable changes (bad):
Lack of civility - what I call the "Eastenders" effect
The whole world and his wife goes to university - dumbest idea Tony Blair ever came up with, IMO (but also the smartest - he knew exactly what he was doing)
Obsession with consumption, lack of individual responsibility for personal debt, the creation of a nouveau riche/have and have-not dichotomy based purely on the ridiculous housing boom from late 90's, that has left some undeserving people much better off financially, and others either unable to get on the ladder or saddled with huge mortgage debt (i.e., moi).
A voting pattern driven more by a cult of personality than political values and understanding.
A mind-blowing obsession with bureacracy and record-keeping, reporting, accountability reviews, none of which actually improve professional practice.
An education and higher education system that is going to the dogs
A prevailing "can't-do", or obstructive attitude to innovation and independence of thought (coming back from the States, the contrast is huge - I just got off the phone with a colleague in the US, discussing the development of a patentable device, and it is so refreshing to feed off the positivity).
I have a love-hate relationship with the UK. I grew up here and it made me what I am in many ways. However, after 25 years of hard graft overseas, getting a postgraduate education and working and saving like a dog, I am worse off financially than Joe Schmo next door who rode the wave of New Labour, or college friends who made a mint during the privatisation boom, the council house sell-off, etc.
Hopefully that has filled in some of the gaps in why I have been trying to get back to the US (though it is looking increasingly unlikely).
Noticeable changes (good):
Greater socioeconomic mobility (yes, even with 20+ years of conservative and "New labour/neo-conservative" government!)
Just about all the other good changes are the same the world over, such as greater individual wealth, more entertainment offerings, etc. I read on here a lot about better shopping choices, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rat's *ss about shopping or buying "stuff".
Noticeable changes (bad):
Lack of civility - what I call the "Eastenders" effect
The whole world and his wife goes to university - dumbest idea Tony Blair ever came up with, IMO (but also the smartest - he knew exactly what he was doing)
Obsession with consumption, lack of individual responsibility for personal debt, the creation of a nouveau riche/have and have-not dichotomy based purely on the ridiculous housing boom from late 90's, that has left some undeserving people much better off financially, and others either unable to get on the ladder or saddled with huge mortgage debt (i.e., moi).
A voting pattern driven more by a cult of personality than political values and understanding.
A mind-blowing obsession with bureacracy and record-keeping, reporting, accountability reviews, none of which actually improve professional practice.
An education and higher education system that is going to the dogs
A prevailing "can't-do", or obstructive attitude to innovation and independence of thought (coming back from the States, the contrast is huge - I just got off the phone with a colleague in the US, discussing the development of a patentable device, and it is so refreshing to feed off the positivity).
I have a love-hate relationship with the UK. I grew up here and it made me what I am in many ways. However, after 25 years of hard graft overseas, getting a postgraduate education and working and saving like a dog, I am worse off financially than Joe Schmo next door who rode the wave of New Labour, or college friends who made a mint during the privatisation boom, the council house sell-off, etc.
Hopefully that has filled in some of the gaps in why I have been trying to get back to the US (though it is looking increasingly unlikely).
Jan 11th 2011, 6:35 am
#13
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Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Dorset England.
Posts: 676
Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Dunroving ,Thank you for so many details .
Why (if it is not too personal ) do you think you will be unable to return to the US ?
Why (if it is not too personal ) do you think you will be unable to return to the US ?
Jan 11th 2011, 6:40 am
#14
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Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Carlsbad , Ca
Posts: 472
Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
Well, I'm 25 years older than when I left, and so is the UK - so my perspective as a 50+ year old is different than if I were 20+ years old (as I was when I left the UK). Also, the UK has changed a lot in 25 years. Some of these changes are the same the world over (more technology, etc., for example). Other changes are either specific to the UK, or the UK has changed more rapidly than, say the States (where I spent most of my time).
Noticeable changes (good):
Greater socioeconomic mobility (yes, even with 20+ years of conservative and "New labour/neo-conservative" government!)
Just about all the other good changes are the same the world over, such as greater individual wealth, more entertainment offerings, etc. I read on here a lot about better shopping choices, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rat's *ss about shopping or buying "stuff".
Noticeable changes (bad):
Lack of civility - what I call the "Eastenders" effect
The whole world and his wife goes to university - dumbest idea Tony Blair ever came up with, IMO (but also the smartest - he knew exactly what he was doing)
Obsession with consumption, lack of individual responsibility for personal debt, the creation of a nouveau riche/have and have-not dichotomy based purely on the ridiculous housing boom from late 90's, that has left some undeserving people much better off financially, and others either unable to get on the ladder or saddled with huge mortgage debt (i.e., moi).
A voting pattern driven more by a cult of personality than political values and understanding.
A mind-blowing obsession with bureacracy and record-keeping, reporting, accountability reviews, none of which actually improve professional practice.
An education and higher education system that is going to the dogs
A prevailing "can't-do", or obstructive attitude to innovation and independence of thought (coming back from the States, the contrast is huge - I just got off the phone with a colleague in the US, discussing the development of a patentable device, and it is so refreshing to feed off the positivity).
I have a love-hate relationship with the UK. I grew up here and it made me what I am in many ways. However, after 25 years of hard graft overseas, getting a postgraduate education and working and saving like a dog, I am worse off financially than Joe Schmo next door who rode the wave of New Labour, or college friends who made a mint during the privatisation boom, the council house sell-off, etc.
Hopefully that has filled in some of the gaps in why I have been trying to get back to the US (though it is looking increasingly unlikely).
Noticeable changes (good):
Greater socioeconomic mobility (yes, even with 20+ years of conservative and "New labour/neo-conservative" government!)
Just about all the other good changes are the same the world over, such as greater individual wealth, more entertainment offerings, etc. I read on here a lot about better shopping choices, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rat's *ss about shopping or buying "stuff".
Noticeable changes (bad):
Lack of civility - what I call the "Eastenders" effect
The whole world and his wife goes to university - dumbest idea Tony Blair ever came up with, IMO (but also the smartest - he knew exactly what he was doing)
Obsession with consumption, lack of individual responsibility for personal debt, the creation of a nouveau riche/have and have-not dichotomy based purely on the ridiculous housing boom from late 90's, that has left some undeserving people much better off financially, and others either unable to get on the ladder or saddled with huge mortgage debt (i.e., moi).
A voting pattern driven more by a cult of personality than political values and understanding.
A mind-blowing obsession with bureacracy and record-keeping, reporting, accountability reviews, none of which actually improve professional practice.
An education and higher education system that is going to the dogs
A prevailing "can't-do", or obstructive attitude to innovation and independence of thought (coming back from the States, the contrast is huge - I just got off the phone with a colleague in the US, discussing the development of a patentable device, and it is so refreshing to feed off the positivity).
I have a love-hate relationship with the UK. I grew up here and it made me what I am in many ways. However, after 25 years of hard graft overseas, getting a postgraduate education and working and saving like a dog, I am worse off financially than Joe Schmo next door who rode the wave of New Labour, or college friends who made a mint during the privatisation boom, the council house sell-off, etc.
Hopefully that has filled in some of the gaps in why I have been trying to get back to the US (though it is looking increasingly unlikely).
Jan 11th 2011, 6:51 am
#15
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Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,025
Re: Is the UK you came back to the same one you left?
2) I'm getting to "that age" where institutions prefer to hire a younger, cheaper option. The age thing is/was less of an issue in higher education, but these days, the economy is driving everything and a fresh PhD graduate causes a smaller bump in the salary budget, even if he/she will take 5-10 years to get into shape.
3) I'm getting a little tired of trying - I balance the question of whether I can work another 12-15 years in UK higher education and retain my sanity with the opposing question of do I have the energy for another fresh start in the States ... and then I either talk to a US colleague or go over there for a conference and am reminded of the vast difference in mindset and my compatibility with the way my profession is run over there - i.e., they let you do your frickin' job, instead of creating hours of mindless emails and other busy-work.
... because of my doubts about settling into another fresh start, I have been restricting my applications to areas of the US I am familiar with (i.e., southeast, east coast), which also reduces my chances.
I actually interviewed for a position last year and came second. From inside information it was a stitch-up job - I know that sounds like sour grapes, but I also know the facts and it's true. Because I know I was the strongest candidate by far, it knocked my confidence a fair bit.
I may just back off for a year and try again. You can spend too much mental energy on wanting to be somewhere else, and you end up wishing your life away.
