Be nice to OZ

Old Jan 2nd 2007, 2:13 am
  #226  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by denver View Post
Yes, up late, cant sleep. Been living in London since August 2005. Grew up in Duncraig in Perth and am returning home in Feb this year. I was doing the two year working visa thing. I base my theories on what I observe around me, the fact that I teach in schools in this country and the fact that I read a couple of British newspapers each day. The newspapers vary, but I usually read The Times or The Observer, sometimes the Guardian or the Daily Mail. Just to prove I am not completely biased I think UK newspapers are awesome and I will miss sitting in a cafe and reading them after school. Since I have moved here, I have developed an intense dislike for the Blair government ( I thought he was doing a good job when I was in Oz, but TBH did not reseach the situation) I was last here in 1998 and had a great time - I was backpacking through Europe. I really dislike the schools here, even in outer London, the kids are rude and undisciplined, basically I just get through the day (though obviously make an effort with the kids as there are always nice ones too) The kids are harder and more grown up here. I found Aussie kids to be happier and healthier in general, and there are only a few tough ones in each year, rather than several in each class. The kids in Oz just seem to have more respect for their elders and each other. I really enjoyed teaching in WA and I was not at 'cushy schools'. I do not like the Human Rights Act (how convenient for Cherie Blair, a human rights lawyer!) I believe in teaching people their responsibilties first. The kids are full of their rights now, and no I did not see any evidence of this in OZ, but have been told this several times over here. Many english teachers just accept the poor behaviour as normal, or seem unwilling to help me out.

The level of anti-social behaviour seems higher in london ( I accept this may not be the case elsewhere in the UK, I have done a bit of travelling through the countryside.) One school I was at had the police turn up at the end of the day to supervise the kids going home. Never heard of this happening in Australia. It was a nightmare getting on the bus to go home from that school.

In the UK, yobbish behaviour has gotten so bad that a new political party has been formed called MUM's Army, which aims to stamp out this behaviour.

The UK just seems so crowded, and why is there such poor border control here.? Madness.

I could go on, but it is time for bed now.
My Uncle was until recently the deputy head of one of the foremost girls schools in London and I can assure you none of the behaviour you describe happens there or the rural suffolk school he now teaches at. When he taught in Tower Hamlets it was the case but I am comparing schools which are poles apart.

The UK has got crowded and there is a lot of anti social behaviour, certainly more than when I was growing up but you cannot go around making the kind of sweeping statements that you make, certainly not based on 17 months of living there.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 2:39 am
  #227  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by denver View Post
Just pointing out the fact that people really only began to pollute their environments in a serious fashion after the industrial revolution. How is this not correct? I realise that all industrialised nations are to blame, however.
But what you were actually trying to do was blame Britian for it. It's not what we did but what we do now that separates us from the others. Some like Britian signed up to Kyoto and others like the USA and Oz didn't. Kyoto might not actually achieve much but at least it was a start in the right direction.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 3:20 am
  #228  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by denver View Post
No, I don't think Australia is perfect, at all, far from it. Crime occurs. Corruption occurs. Some Australians are rude/ignorant/idiots. There are boy racers. There are bushfires. There are some great things about the UK ie history, countryside. But I think Australia is being managed well, the people are confident and happy (on thw whole) and I think The UK is going down a slippery slope (mainly due to poor social policies) and some UK people on this forum are in denial about it.
A common thread of yours is to claim that Britons are denial about your perceived view of our country. Yet you seem to be in equal denial about our perceived view of yours. Tell me, how does that work?

I might also add that it took me some years to reach the conclusion I did about Australia (and the majority of Australians and their entrenched racism) My first years here were very happy. Your infinite wisdom seems to have manifested itself in 18mths, ex b/f issues aside.

If Australia was being managed that well it would be a member of G7 wouldn't it? As is, Australia just scrapes into G20.

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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 3:27 am
  #229  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by northernbird View Post
My Uncle was until recently the deputy head of one of the foremost girls schools in London and I can assure you none of the behaviour you describe happens there or the rural suffolk school he now teaches at. When he taught in Tower Hamlets it was the case but I am comparing schools which are poles apart.

The UK has got crowded and there is a lot of anti social behaviour, certainly more than when I was growing up but you cannot go around making the kind of sweeping statements that you make, certainly not based on 17 months of living there.

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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by arkon View Post
Thanks for telling me what I meant to say but in this case, SQUID was what I meant.
Sorry Arkon, i stand corrected, i didn't realise you were eating a seafood platter at the time!
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 3:03 pm
  #231  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by denver View Post
I base my theories on what I observe around me, the fact that I teach in schools in this country and the fact that I read a couple of British newspapers each day.

I really dislike the schools here, even in outer London, the kids are rude and undisciplined, basically I just get through the day (though obviously make an effort with the kids as there are always nice ones too) The kids are harder and more grown up here. I found Aussie kids to be happier and healthier in general, and there are only a few tough ones in each year, rather than several in each class. The kids in Oz just seem to have more respect for their elders and each other. I really enjoyed teaching in WA and I was not at 'cushy schools'.
Here's the problem. Your comparisons on the education systems of the UK and OZ are based solely on behaviour. I can't blame you for that, as it's probably your priority on a daily basis. Behaviour in classrooms has always been a problem in UK schools, and what you have described sounds no different to the school I attended 25 years ago.

The Expats on this board however, are comparing the ACADEMICS of the 2 systems. The general view on here is that kids in the UK are taught at a higher and more challenging level than OZ and the US. So as parents of hopefully well behaved children already, it makes sense that we would want the system that leaves them with a higher level of education when they finish school.
My kids here in Florida go to what is percieved as a great school. It is well maintained, the kids are great, the parental involvement is high. BUT, what is actually taught in the classroom? Well, in my case, not a lot. My kids have plodded along over the years. They are not being challenged. They are not being taught according to their abilities, but to the lowest ability kids. So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 3:12 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake View Post
My kids here in Florida go to what is percieved as a great school. It is well maintained, the kids are great, the parental involvement is high. BUT, what is actually taught in the classroom? Well, in my case, not a lot. My kids have plodded along over the years. They are not being challenged. They are not being taught according to their abilities, but to the lowest ability kids. So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ.
Genuine question - are your children being educated in a Montessori school?
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 4:21 pm
  #233  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake View Post
The Expats on this board however, are comparing the ACADEMICS of the 2 systems. The general view on here is that kids in the UK are taught at a higher and more challenging level than OZ and the US. My kids have plodded along over the years. They are not being challenged. They are not being taught according to their abilities, but to the lowest ability kids. So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ.
I find this interesting. It has always been my impression that kids in many UK schools are limited by the poor literacy & behaviour (often linked) of the weakest kids. I found that to be the case when I was at school myself, ten-fifteen years ago, and for the last few years as a teacher. One of the impressions I have (perhaps wrongly!) about the Aussie school system is that it seems to focus more on the behaviour/happiness of the kids than the UK system which seems obsessed with constant testing & assessment.

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake View Post
So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ
You cannot separate behaviour from everything else that happens in the classroom - the curriculum can be as challenging as you like but if the teacher is out in the corridor dealing with some little twerp who can't manage to stay in the room then what difference does it make?

Last edited by esperanza; Jan 2nd 2007 at 4:23 pm.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 6:10 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by milliewoos View Post
Genuine question - are your children being educated in a Montessori school?

No, normal Elementary school.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 6:39 pm
  #235  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by esperanza View Post
I find this interesting. It has always been my impression that kids in many UK schools are limited by the poor literacy & behaviour (often linked) of the weakest kids. I found that to be the case when I was at school myself, ten-fifteen years ago, and for the last few years as a teacher. One of the impressions I have (perhaps wrongly!) about the Aussie school system is that it seems to focus more on the behaviour/happiness of the kids than the UK system which seems obsessed with constant testing & assessment.



You cannot separate behaviour from everything else that happens in the classroom - the curriculum can be as challenging as you like but if the teacher is out in the corridor dealing with some little twerp who can't manage to stay in the room then what difference does it make?

I am aware of that, which is why I said "behaviour problems aside". Most of us moving back would choose carefully which schools we send our kids to and try our hardest to avoid the worst ones. Inner city schools in London would not be on my list of possible places to send my kids, and I don't think anyone would willingly choose a school with a bad reputation. So assuming you avoid the classrooms with the worst behaviour, what is actually taught becomes the priority.


You're right in saying the Aussie (and US) focus is different to the UK focus, and that is exactly why this discussion goes round and round in circles with no end.
Denver just needs to accept that's the way it is in the UK and make the most of what time she has left there.

Last edited by ladyofthelake; Jan 2nd 2007 at 6:42 pm.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 9:33 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake View Post
I am aware of that, which is why I said "behaviour problems aside". Most of us moving back would choose carefully which schools we send our kids to and try our hardest to avoid the worst ones. Inner city schools in London would not be on my list of possible places to send my kids, and I don't think anyone would willingly choose a school with a bad reputation. So assuming you avoid the classrooms with the worst behaviour, what is actually taught becomes the priority. .
I might be jumping to conclusions here, but I would imagine that if you can afford to buy in the catchment area of a good school (or pay the fees for an indie, which might be cheaper!) then you will be able to get a good education for your child whichever country you are in.

(I don't mean you personally, I mean 'one')
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 10:18 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by esperanza View Post
I might be jumping to conclusions here, but I would imagine that if you can afford to buy in the catchment area of a good school (or pay the fees for an indie, which might be cheaper!) then you will be able to get a good education for your child whichever country you are in.

(I don't mean you personally, I mean 'one')
That is the bottom line. Money. If you can afford to send your kid to a good school you will get a good education. If you can't you won't. That's capitalism folks!

I think it would be fair to say that most UK schools suffer from yobbish behaviour. Of course if you can afford to send your kid to Eton then you will get a great education.

On the other hand if you are living in the inner city, then the chances are you won't be getting a top notch education.

I know cos I went to a state school. And I aint got nuffin good to say about it. It was survival of the fittest at my school.
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Old Jan 3rd 2007, 9:21 am
  #238  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake View Post
No, normal Elementary school.
Damn! Was going to ask if I could PM some questions had you said yes! (my sister is going crazy with my niece's education). Sorry for interrupting thread.
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Old Jan 5th 2007, 2:41 pm
  #239  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Its 20 years ahead of NZ?

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Old Jan 5th 2007, 2:45 pm
  #240  
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Default Re: Be nice to OZ

Dirk...really sorry about this mate, but I have to disagree with you about Eton!

I know 4 OE's who, I contract to, and they are all recovering drug addicts, alcoholics and are now compulsive gamblers and smoke like chimneys.................ALL bloody rich though!!! LOL

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