Lots of people consider that Australia is going to have some major problems in years to come too.

Ongoing drought having major impact on farming and agriculture and food.

Serious issues with insufficient rain and thus water.

Insufficient housing facilities in and around the major city areas; i.e. where people actually need/want to live.

Would never seek to suggest that UK is perfect/without problems. But the inference that Australia has it all sorted and is perfect is absurd.

Well I haven't implied that Australia is without problems, but I would take issue with some of the above. Australia has a large drought every 50 years or so, and it often lasts for over a decade. This is the way it has always been. Australia actually has much higher rainfall than Britain and three times less people using it, so as long as they sort out some desal plants Aus should be OK in that department. Certainly no problem with water in tropical Australia so the Govt could easily choose to populate that area instead. Also, many parts of Aus have had record rainfall this year. I don't know about the housing issues other than to say Aus has much more land to build on than the UK, even in just its habitable parts.

I'm not saying that the UK is "doomed", I'm just making the point that IMO the further you go in the future, the richer you will have to be to have a decent life there, like any contracting, cold country. Britain, always was, is and always will be a country for the rich. That is why it has the biggest gap between rich and poor - even bigger than the US.

Australia only has high rainfall in certain areas. Not nationwide. If you start restricting the discussion (and future population expansion) to areas that have more favourable conditions rainfall-wise then it becomes a moot point to speak of greater space. In any case, seeing as a huge sector of Australia is not feasibly inhabitable (without some pretty big changes in the way we live) I have always wondered why people always offer up the size of Australia as an advantage; only a relatively small percentage of it is actually desirable as a place to live so of what real benefit is the rest of it?

And if we are talking of looking into the future, has Australia not become vastly more expensive/less affordable in the last ten to twenty years than it was in, for example, the 1970s and 1980s? So, is that going to freeze as it currently stands? Is Australia not going to get more expensive and thus become, as you describe Britain as being, a country for the rich? How easy is it for people to afford decent housing in and around Melbourne or Sydney these days? Plenty of people, including families, live in flats and units no bigger or better than their counterparts in the UK. Surely that is going to become even more the case as time passes?

I think you'll actually find the days of ''cheap Australia'' are over, mate.

I actually pay more for groceries (especially basics like bread and milk) in Australia than I did in the UK and aside from cheaper rent I can't look around me and see an awful lot that is THAT much different here. According to Australia's fans (and I assume you are one) Australia is SO MUCH cheaper in EVERY way than the UK, but I fail to see how.

I can't afford to get on the property ladder here any more than I could in the UK. So if Australia is so much cheaper and easier and better and fairer, how do you account for that? If I wanted to buy something desperately, I'd have to move RIGHT out into the bush (where I'd struggle to find work) in order to do so.

I think too many people come to Australia with some cash from the sale of their house in Northampton, find they can get a house with that with an extra living room for the kids and a bigger back yard and so decide that Australia is amazing. They conclude also that those who miss the UK are wrong and should just piss off back.

Australia may offer advantages to SOME but not to everyone. It depends on so many individual circumstances.

Whilst I am not seeking to exactly refute that statement, I would draw your attention to this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...3/s1591549.htm

Again, just to reiterate, I think the idea that Australia is immune to the UK's social and economic issues and that it always will be is, well, naive.

Get ready for a life of ping ponging. My parents had the same dilemma and it ended in D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

It is a dilemma, no two ways about that. As Triboy said, you and your wife need to be on the same page about what you do - there are always difficulties with mixed marriages IMHO - one of you is always going to have it all and the other one wont. There are ways around that - like being sure that you dont live within cooeee of either's family but that it is you both and the kids as a united unit not you against her and hers.

A crystal ball would be great for all of us. I tend to think that Australia is too bloody sanguine by half with the usual "she'll be right" attitude and I suspect a lot of people are going to find themselves very uncomfortable in the not too distant future. I doubt that water problems are going to be solved by desal plants but, yes, it is a land of droughts and this one is not exceptional - the fact that the land is trying to support a considerably larger population than in previous droughts does make it an issue though and when you have water diverted from food growing into flushing loos you do have to wonder whether the current population can be sustained let alone the projected increases the government desires. I think the demographers reckon we passed sustainability at 17m. Plenty of water up north in the wet but who the hell would want to live there? I think too that we are depending too much on China wanting our resources for our recovery - with cheaper resources in Africa with fewer union trappings they are going to be a much more attractive option so we may be relying on something which wont eventuate at least to the degree that the pundits expect. Add to that a government which is likely to stick around for at least another term and drive us down the same old same old Labor debt road and I dont know that the future here is as rosy as it is painted.

Will UK be any different - who knows, but at least the worm is beginning to turn over there and hopefully some sensible government will make some changes to drag it out of the doldrums. At the end of the day though, if the capitalist world is going under then we will all go under regardless.

I dont buy into the mantra of Aus offering a "better future for the kids" - kids in UK grow up just as happy, healthy and fulfilled as do kids in Australia and probably with more and varied options. There will be little sh*ts everywhere, both here and there so that isnt really an argument. A UK education - for all its recent Labour dumbing down is still right up there on the world stage. I think young Aussies realize that there is a whole wide world out there just waiting for them - talk to most school/uni leavers about their aspirations and the majority will say they want to travel out of Australia, they realize it is a tiny pond.

On a personal level though, only you know where you "belong" - where you can be yourself and experience the things that are important to you. I have absolutely no doubt where I belong. I have reached the stage of utter boredom and now have such a dislike of Australia that there would be nothing I would miss except my son and granddaughter but they could do the trip and I could manage to come for the occasional holiday to catch up with them. I went through the liking the adventure stage, through the ho hum when will we move stage through to the OMG there are iron bars keeping me here stage and this last stage is not comfortable so my advice to anyone would be to make a move at least at the ho hum stage and all the better if your kids are still young.

All the very best with whatever you decide to do!

I agree so much. Fresh back from the U.K and I think you can easily live cheaper there. I really believe you need to be " rich " to live in Perth. We are heading back because of a few reasons but the main one being it is costing us money to live here. We can survive on the wages if I work at least 6 days per week and sometimes 7, I am considered to be on a good wage.

I have found hardly anything cheaper in Australia. I really don't know what people are talking about. Eating out? Sure, if you are prepared to eat at relatively basic places; but the classy restaurants in Melbourne are every bit as expensive as the equivalent restaurants in most of England. If you think La Porchetta counts as a decent restaurant then maybe that is why you think eating out in Australia is more affordable.

Clothes? Lots of cheap clothes here, I admit, but they are REALLY rubbish quality and you can find cheap clothes in the UK, they are just not as prevalent as they are in Australia.

Food shopping? Definitely not. If anything my (Aussie) wife reports the grocery bill as being dearer in Australia than it was in the UK. Bread is hugely expensive here compared to the UK.

The main difference in Australia is that a lot of people live in bigger places than they would do in the UK and the sun has his hat on more often. That's it. I fail to see why people have to dress it up and embelish it with all these other ''benefits'' that are neither correct nor necessary.

Just admit that you love Australia because you like the climate more and your kids have their own living room here. Perhaps there are individual things like your particular career is easier to do here but they are personal things and clearly do not apply to other people.

Climate and bigger housing. That's the real deal and people need to call a spade a spade.

Also, I find the Aussie lovers will recite a list of big advantages about Australia but forget that for every one of those there is a negative about Australia too. It just depends what you are looking for.

Same for any country.

We're just your average working class couple,nothing more,nothing less,certainly not rich!But we do manage to have a really good life here.There is more to life than having a huge house with a swimming pool!!

Williamos

Quite an argument put together! Fair play. A few points to think about:

Rainfall: all Australian metropolitan areas have higher rainfall than London except Adelaide.

Habitable areas: You are right to say what you did, but even the habitable parts of Australia are significantly larger than Britain.

Inflation: Yes, Australia has had nasty inflation and is nearly as expensive as Europe. I suspect it will get more expensive in the future as well, like Europe. However expensive it gets though, it will always be cheaper than Europe, for demographic and geographic reasons we can do nothing about.

Groceries: You pay more in Australia, I pay about the same. The reason it;s not as cheap as you'd like is because you are paying Australian farmers for their produce. In Britain you buy cheap groceries because it's half of it is imported from the third world, and in doing so you destroy British farming. It depends on whether you value your own farmers. On this note you should realise that thanks to devalued sterling food imports into the UK will become much more expensive in future.

Housing: Agreed. Australian housing grotesquely overpriced. Soon to come down though as the rates rise through next year. Those people from Northampton you mention are one of the biggest reasons we had the housing boom in Australia - all that equity from Gordon Brown's house price inflation bonanza. The only way he could keep the UK economy afloat.

For those saying they can live cheaper in the UK - of course you can - it's in the middle of a deflationary debt spiral! I ask again - what can Britain do to save sterling this time round?

I think people can like Australia for other reasons than the weather though, and this simplification is inaccurate and a little bit churlish. Yes, the weather is better and you get more land and house for your money, but there are other reasons. What about the amazing wildlife and scenery? The quiet roads? The free and plentiful parking? The absence of government spy cameras everywhere? What about the fact it has self-determination and the men and women you vote for actually run the country? How about the national pride in contrast to the tiresome self-loathing of the British? I think you are being too hard on Australia because you are trying to justify your decision to leave it.

We moved from East London to Devon about six years ago and it was a great move to make and the county is great for kids. I'm afraid there are downsides, employment prospects being a major one, property prices are still high. Having said that, there's plenty to do that doesn't cost that much, London, especially with kids, is pricey.

Also, make sure it's not an aspect of your life in Oz that you don't like, ie the business, it could be that changing that might sort out a few things. Also, you might just need a holiday. Good luck.