whiterabbit

You have your experiences and I have had mine recently in the UK. if you think I am delusional then thats fine I guess. Have you ever read listend to the crap Ken Livingston does and says. Just because your friends were told the sex of their child doesn't mean we were. I do find it amusing how liberals always assume they know better and anyone who doesn't agree is obviously ill-educated and being brainwashed by the press. Funny thing is a lot of people feel the BBC, Daily Mail is brainwashing people the other way. Anyway I am new to this forum, didn't come here to talk UK politics and and it would literally take way too much time to debate with you. Lets just agree to totally differ on the benefits of political correctness and illegal immigration to the UK.

gardnma

Sounds like they are going down the same path as during Clinton's first office. Adherence to PC just because it is right. Its the new way to think. Seems like PC has become just another part of US vocabulary now.

Taffyles

Swansea University reckons UK need to increase immigration by 16% to help prop the system up....the low birth rate is giving cause for concern, not just in UK either- in other European countries. guess the Daily Mail missed that research.
I think Crime is way over-exagerated in UK. I was going to go down to my mothers local big town on a Saturday night to push a set of keys into the Estate Agents there- Lord I had all my mother's friends telling me not to go near the place it was a free for all down there at night...of course I listened and went anyway, deciding to just drive on and not park if I saw great warring gangs of druken yobs... I saw a group of teens outside a pub being rowdy but no fighting and other groups hanging about talking- no-one even looked at me let alone threatened...what a bloody load a bullshit people are fed (and some believe). this last time I was home I was up in Southend when England went out of the world cup- I was expecting to see and hear trouble when they all started spilling out of the pub parties. Well my friends and I walked the dog at midnight- along the London Road and didn't see a thing apart from a few groups waiting at bus stops etc and standing round talking, a bit rowdy but not even the slightest hint of trouble. Heck I've felt more threatened in my car driving through Orlando late at night- and Sarasota too for that matter.

Hayley

This is no different to the folks in starter mansions over here that know nothing about how to survive on minimum wage. Sounds like you want to be locked away from the PC bunch in suburbia yourself and it's easier and cheaper to do that in the wide open spaces of USA than in Britain. Fair enough, I'm sure your children will have a well rounded view of how the other half lives!

What are you on about? I was pointing out that in order to know more about survival skills you have to know what it is like to survive. Common sense. I'm sure your kids will be well educated but not sure this means they will be well rounded. Know many Americans who can tell you a few facts for example the world wars and how long they lasted but not how it affected the people of the time, what life was like. perhaps you'll fill in the gaps for your kids- if so good for you, if not you might turn around one day and think (about your kids) who are these people?

For growing up on a council estate you certainly buy into the whole fear mongering.All I remember growing up was that there were certain parents of kids I went to school with who wouldn't allow me to hang around with their children as they knew I lived on the estate. They were a little paranoid, and it sounds like you are taking the same view.

Remember you grew up on an estate and You were ok and you got through it was it really that bad?, I grew up on a council estate 20 years after you and I'm ok. My friends in England are raising kids on council estates and they are ok. Granted times have changed but weren't people saying the same things as yourself when you were growing up around the council people? You probably didn't feel they knew what they were talking about/ that it wasn't that bad as you were in the midst of it and therefore saw the truth. This is what I'm trying to get at. You can't see things truly clearly until you are there...

Which is why going back will be a eye- opening experience for me and sheltering your kids could prove detrimental.

AmerLisa

Protecting your children is sheltering them and detrimental? To what? Their lives? Fear mongering is a way of life in this day and age. Hey it happens everywhere. If you're looking for Utopia, it doesn't exist or it left at the last turn of the generation gap. Things aren't quite as bad as they seem though, unless you're in bad situation.

whiterabbit

For growing up on a council estate you certainly buy into the whole fear mongering.All I remember growing up was that there were certain parents of kids I went to school with who wouldn't allow me to hang around with their children as they knew I lived on the estate. They were a little paranoid, and it sounds like you are taking the same view.

Remember you grew up on an estate and You were ok and you got through it was it really that bad?, I grew up on a council estate 20 years after you and I'm ok. My friends in England are raising kids on council estates and they are ok. Granted times have changed but weren't people saying the same things as yourself when you were growing up around the council people? You probably didn't feel they knew what they were talking about/ that it wasn't that bad as you were in the midst of it and therefore saw the truth. This is what I'm trying to get at. You can't see things truly clearly until you are there...

I totally understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. I honestly thought the same till I went back. However things where I am from have changed so much I could not believe. I hate to say "in my day" but:
In my day yes there were some problem kids and families but the worse that would happen is maybe I would get beaten up. Now on the estate where I grew up there are murders and gangs from every country you can name, drugs are all over the place and even the post office won't deliver after dark. An English or American white kid would stand out like a sore thumb nor their family qualify for a house for that matter. There is a massive shortage of council housing and asylum seekers will get priority. The working class families have all moved elsewhere, the sense of comunity has gone and decay is rampant. This is why I wouldn't recomend living even close to a problem London council estate these days.
As stated I wouldn't have said this before I moved back as I held nostagic beliefs about the place, moving back changed that.

Hayley

It is interesting that you feel that keeping children in suburbia in a private school is protection. From what? I just don't think it's healthy for kids to not see how other people live, in order that they don't judge people but reaslie how fortunate they are.

That's what I'm trying to say if there are shootings and drugs rife in the council estates in england then of course protect children from these things but living in a poor US part of town won't protect from meth for example. How can you be sure your children will be able to keep at the same lifestyle level you have (how much of that is based on your british qualifications and accent propelling you forward?)


[/

Read my earlier posts to see I don't think I'm going back to utopia. Let me ask this- we all seem to have better lives materially over here but if it all went pear shaped (as it could as we all get older) given the choice would you rather be poor in the US or poor in England? which do you think is rougher?

AmerLisa

I've only ever been poor in the US - so can't compare the two. And if it did all go pear shaped, I'm not sure where I'd want to be. In a perfect world it would probably be the UK - but we just don't know how things will be in the future. Will the government be able to continue the socialised programs that are already in place? I don't know. On the flip side, will the US ever start a socialised program to help their citizens?

But, I want my child to live as safe as possible. No, that doesn't mean living in a bubble where she will never have contact with the outside world - but I wouldn't exactly go and live in the barrios of East Los Angeles to prove a point to her either.

Hayley

very good point.

If you are poor in the US what is so great about being here? is it family?

AmerLisa

Actually I don't feel that way. My daughter will be starting kindergarden this fall in a school and area that isn't the best. But I work there and know the teachers and know my daughter will benefit from it. She will be at school with very streetwise kids and while it worries me how she will deal with it all, it will benefit her tremendously.

AmerLisa

Being in the US? I said in my first post that's why we came back to the US, family. We're not poor here now, but I was previously. I shouldn't really say poor, I wasn't homeless, but I certainly had a daily struggle.

Hayley

Well I just think this thread has really helped me feel better.
I seem to be firmly on the side of the British way of life so it must mean I'm really wanting to go back- thanks for everyones input though.

Any help on practical things like getting the move going etc would really help. That's why I started this post. I think we all have our ideas of whether we will be returning or not.

gardnma

We struggled for a while in NY. Would have been so nice to get child allowance at least during that time. There was no safety net.
Managed to pull through though......

AmerLisa

I know what you mean. But I also think benefits have become (in some instances) a pretty nice income for single mothers in the UK.

gardnma

(IMHO) As long as there are social programs there will be people who try to exist soley on them. For the working stiffs - there really needs to be more "thanks for the effort - and here's a little back" from the US Govt, other than "see how free you are: you don't need that from us" mentality.