How many actually return?

Old Apr 19th 2007, 10:26 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by ezzkazz
To the people who are heading back home, it was not a big mistake you cannot change, just an expensive lesson you have learnt.

I say better to have learnt a lesson then to have made a big mistake.
I like that. I'm going to use that one in the future thanks

Originally Posted by fishfinger
Yes that is true. If you have your heart set on a place you will just ignore all the negatives. I know I did that!
So true - you just want that "dream" life so badly that you just don't see what is in front of your eyes

When I read on the Australia forum about people emigrating without even seeing the place because they "want a better life" I just want to scream at them not to do it, or at the very least to have some long visits first and research it more. It's heartbreaking thinking that so many others will go through what you have been through
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Old Apr 19th 2007, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by LouiseD
I like that. I'm going to use that one in the future thanks



So true - you just want that "dream" life so badly that you just don't see what is in front of your eyes

When I read on the Australia forum about people emigrating without even seeing the place because they "want a better life" I just want to scream at them not to do it, or at the very least to have some long visits first and research it more. It's heartbreaking thinking that so many others will go through what you have been through
I think sometimes people are blinded by the good things they see. Its a bit like 'love', sometimes the person in love doesnt see things wrong with their partner but the people on the outside see it. They warn them but all they see is the good and not the bad.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 12:45 am
  #33  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

I had never been to Oz before when I went there. But I also went with an open mind in seeing how I felt about it and saw what happened. I was lucky I didn't ship everything over when I first went there, I kept something scattered around the place and then later got rid of what I didn't want and also did the same when I came back. I think it is harder to start over again in your 30's and later than in your 20's when people are often going into different directions anyway in your life so it is easier to start again. I found it a culture shock when I first went to Oz and I was surprised to also find it when I went back to the UK, so maybe we just get used to different things after a while.

When I went to Oz I rented for a while until I knew I wanted to live there for a while and then brought a house and I also did the same in Spain, I rented until I knew whether I wanted to be there or not. Maybe people should give themselves a couple of years in a new country and then maybe then move lock stock and barrel, in that way their costs would probably be much lower. I've never moved material things to another country apart from the sentimental stuff and I haven't had the costs incurred that many people have had in moving stuff from one country to bring it all back again and the money they spend doing it they could probably buy a holiday house somewhere else with that money they spend on shipping. Maybe people should emigrate a lot smarter and have a contigency plan if it goes pear shape so they don't return back worse than they did when they left. Even moreso for those who have never lived in another country before or even been to the country they emigrate. I've seen too many people return to the UK broke and have to start over again financially and it is sad to see and I've seen others who have returned much better off than they were when they left, so maybe there should be programmes about being smart when emigrating.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 12:59 am
  #34  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

What you have said Mercedes, is spot on. We have lived in 3 different countries. Like you, we did not take much the first time (just a few boxes) but the second and third we shipped it all and yes, it was expensive.
I think your thoughts should be posted on the Emirgating forum.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 3:51 am
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by LouiseD
And even when you try to explain, they look at you like you've got two heads
We had some visitors from the UK a couple of weeks ago. They've been here a few times and LOVE IT!

Some of the things that were asked/mentioned?

"Do they have intensive farming here?" I said that judging by the size of chicken breasts and the amount of water that comes out when you cook them - I would say yes. (Having said that - I do think the quality of meat in general is good here)

"Do you think the schooling here is better - someone was stabbed at our local school" I said I didn't think schooling was necessarily better. I mentioned that those sorts of things go on here too - a schoolboy hung himself down the mornington peninsula because of bullying and a school boy was stabbed in Sydney. I was trying to point out that these things happen everywhere - not just in the UK.

"Do you get youths hanging out on street corners?" Um - yes. I was talking to a school mum yesterday who lives opposite a drinking venue that was an upmarket eaterie when she moved in. It is now a drinking venue and has up to 500 youths in it at times. She gets stones thrown at her windows?!

"It's SO CLEAN here" - Is it really? I took the train the other day and it had rubbish in it everywhere. Bottles cans and dog dirt is frequently on the pavements! When we went for a walk alng the beach - there were also a few bits of rubbish and floating plastic bags - probably invisible to all but me. It's amazing how you see only what you want to see, and how you believe only what you want to believe.

Like you - I was trying to explain that this is NOT paradise, it's just another place to live - just like the UK it has got it's fair share of problems and crap etc, it's no different - I don't think I managed to shake off her rose tints though - and she probably went away thinking what a moan I was!!
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 3:57 am
  #36  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

I would say more people in there 40s go back and it probably is as much as 40%.
In my experience I have found that it is much easier for people like myself to settle we love it here but we are both starting out we have no children so no pressure there both wanted to start are own business and prepared to put in the work both in our 30s our situation seems so less complicated than some of our friends who are returning, they are all older have children and had business that they gave up only to find they have to work just as hard as they did 10 years ago in the uk it puts a massive pressure on people and stops them living its almost like we are just starting to make a life and havent really given up much - this is of course a generalisation and my own experience at the end of the day all you guys should see the whole experience as a positive one lifes about taking chances and at least you gave it ago you are never gonna say "what if"
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 8:29 am
  #37  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by Mrs Best
It's amazing how you see only what you want to see, and how you believe only what you want to believe.

Like you - I was trying to explain that this is NOT paradise, it's just another place to live - just like the UK it has got it's fair share of problems and crap etc, it's no different - I don't think I managed to shake off her rose tints though - and she probably went away thinking what a moan I was!!
It's hard work isn't it trying to convince people that it just isn't paradise and yes people do see only what they want to see. I had another conversation with my mum yesterday (she loves it and wanted us to stay there so she could get in). She's convinced that all Aussie kids are polite well mannered, disciplined individuals, that Australia is filled with small privately owned shops (no big multi nationals at all), there are no drugs, no violence and it's spotless all the time because the Aussies have such pride in their surroundings unlike us mucky lot

Needless to say my visits are becoming less frequent than they used to be.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 10:44 am
  #38  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by idontknow
Hi all

I was having a conversation with a friend yesterday, and she informed me she had been told, statistics show that 40% of people who emigrate to Australia, actually return home in the first 2 years! I think if this is true, thats an awful lot of people?

Does anyone know if this is actually true? If so, then surely there should be more done to advise people of the negatives of emigrating, as well as the positives of the blue skies, better lifestyles and gorgeous beaches etc etc?
I for one, have found that there are a lot of things that they dont tell you, before you get here, no matter how much research you actually do yourself, it is impossible to know everything, until you are here and living the experience.

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I am still a newbie

Gaynor
This might help with the statistics:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...migrants20.xml

It basically states that just over 1000 a day are leaving Britain, and 1500 are coming in, so there is an overall gain of 500 a day to Britain. The problem from the British perspective is that the 1000 who are leaving are skilled while the 1500 who are coming in are largely unskilled. This is why they have decided to install a points system, just a few decades after the rest of the English-speaking world.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 11:39 am
  #39  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by ezzkazz
Interesting question.... for those who emigrated to another country only to return, did you actually visit first or just go at the point of emigrating? And those who did go visit first, is this the area you then emigrated to?
We had been to Perth twice before we emigrated - once on a backpacking jaunt (b4 kids!!) and once on a long holiday - the fact still remains no matter how often you visit a place you feel completely different once you have moved there lock, stock and barrel.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 1:04 pm
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by Tableland
This might help with the statistics:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...migrants20.xml

It basically states that just over 1000 a day are leaving Britain, and 1500 are coming in, so there is an overall gain of 500 a day to Britain. The problem from the British perspective is that the 1000 who are leaving are skilled while the 1500 who are coming in are largely unskilled. This is why they have decided to install a points system, just a few decades after the rest of the English-speaking world.
so if thats the case the UK has to cater for 182,500 extra people a year.
The UK has over 60m people in it now, its going to be unsustainable. Scary thought.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 1:30 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by ezzkazz
so if thats the case the UK has to cater for 182,500 extra people a year.
The UK has over 60m people in it now, its going to be unsustainable. Scary thought.
Hang on a minute: the excess rate of immigration does not even make up for the number dying each year. In the UK, as in the rest of Europe, overall population growth is *negative*:

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/Ba...ps/europe.html

This is actually of some concern to those who worry about who is going to pay the pensions etc of those who are alive today if this negative trend continues.

Last edited by Elvira; Apr 20th 2007 at 2:03 pm.
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Old Apr 20th 2007, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by Elvira
Hang on a minute: the excess rate of immigration does not even make up for the number dying each year. In the UK, as in the rest of Europe, overall population growth is *negative*:

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/Ba...ps/europe.html

This is actually of some concern to those who worry about who is going to pay the pensions etc of those who are alive to today if this negative trend continues.

Britain has a death rate of 10.09 deaths/1000 population. Canada is 7.86/1000, Australia is 7.56/1000 and the US is 8.26/1000.

Correspondingly, British birth rates are very low as well at 10.67. The US birth-rate is 14.16/1000, Canada is 10.75/1000 and Australia is 12.02 births/1000.

The US birth rate is higher almost exclusively because of the Hispanic population.

If you are a man in Britain your average life expectancy is 76.2 years, in Canada it is 76.9, the US is 75.1 years, and Australia is 77.7 years.

Like most European populations, the British are gradually disappearing. This is why the government has increased immigration so much. Dwindling population means lower tax-base. Chuck in ageing population and you are left with a helluva bad pensions crisis in a few years' time.

Unless you start paying something like 65% income tax or whatever.

Last edited by Tableland; Apr 20th 2007 at 2:04 pm.
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Old Apr 21st 2007, 5:55 am
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by idontknow
Hi all

I was having a conversation with a friend yesterday, and she informed me she had been told, statistics show that 40% of people who emigrate to Australia, actually return home in the first 2 years! I think if this is true, thats an awful lot of people?

Does anyone know if this is actually true? If so, then surely there should be more done to advise people of the negatives of emigrating, as well as the positives of the blue skies, better lifestyles and gorgeous beaches etc etc?
I for one, have found that there are a lot of things that they dont tell you, before you get here, no matter how much research you actually do yourself, it is impossible to know everything, until you are here and living the experience.
There aren't any statistics but anecdotal evidence (eg from this forum) suggests that a significant minority of migrants from the UK do return home after a short period of time.

It's hard to understand why such people go through the upheaval of migration in the first place. Well worth trying to work out in advance whether one is "migration material" or not.

"Migration material"? I'd suggest being independent and self-reliant as well as outgoing. Keen sense of adventure. Flexibility to get local education and work experience, eg making a sideways or downwards step to get a foot on the career ladder.

A positive attitude to life (ie, not just wanting to leave the UK because of what you read in the Daily Mail) is essential. Plus a willingness to "think Australian" (or Canadian/Kiwi etc) once you migrate.

Determination. If you migrate - can you see the process through or will you want to come home at the first difficulty, homesickness. Many people do, it's hard to see that as anything other than failure.

Both spouses, plus older children if applicable, need to feel broadly the same way.

And if you're close to friends/family in the UK, then you really should think very hard about migrating as this is probably the Number One reason for British migration not to work out.
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Old Apr 21st 2007, 8:50 am
  #44  
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by m100
I asked this question a few months ago, I agree more should be done to warn people of the negatives, maybe the BBC should do a programme featuring those who return and why!
I am not sure that one person's negatives are always relative to another person. There are loads of negatives about every country, and NZ has more than its fair share. However, I am certain no amount of negative posting would have put me off coming here. Even if I had seen them ( I didn't)!!! At the end of the day you have to try these things out for yourself. My life in the place I lived was of such a poor standard that almost anything would have been an improvement. NZ did not have to be that great to 'look good' from my frame of reference. I was looking for the sort of life for me and my family that I live right now. What i have now would be impossible to emulate in the UK..for so many reasons. I don't think anyone should be put off doing the emigration thing (unless of course their expectations are totally and wholly ridiculous..like going to auckland with meagre savings, a family of 5 and a $45k NZ wage to live on!!) We are all grown ups and need to test the water. If we don't you spend the rest of your lives wondering 'what if?'

There is no failure in this game of moving worlds away from what you know. All there is at the end of the day is success...which ever way you look at it. If you go home you have learned that what you had was better than you thought. If you stay, well the trip has proved that what you have is better than what you left. Its win win innit? Even if it costs many thousands ( and I have lost my fair share of wonga in my time!!)..what price happiness? Good luck to returnees and new voyagers alike!!
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Old Apr 21st 2007, 8:52 am
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Default Re: How many actually return?

Originally Posted by JAJ
There aren't any statistics but anecdotal evidence (eg from this forum) suggests that a significant minority of migrants from the UK do return home after a short period of time.

It's hard to understand why such people go through the upheaval of migration in the first place. Well worth trying to work out in advance whether one is "migration material" or not.

"Migration material"? I'd suggest being independent and self-reliant as well as outgoing. Keen sense of adventure. Flexibility to get local education and work experience, eg making a sideways or downwards step to get a foot on the career ladder.

A positive attitude to life (ie, not just wanting to leave the UK because of what you read in the Daily Mail) is essential. Plus a willingness to "think Australian" (or Canadian/Kiwi etc) once you migrate.

Determination. If you migrate - can you see the process through or will you want to come home at the first difficulty, homesickness. Many people do, it's hard to see that as anything other than failure.

Both spouses, plus older children if applicable, need to feel broadly the same way.

And if you're close to friends/family in the UK, then you really should think very hard about migrating as this is probably the Number One reason for British migration not to work out.
an interesting post JAJ. reading above I would honestly have lablelled myself as 'migration material'

1. independent, self reliant, outgoing yes definately
2. Determination, got bags of it...some would say im blinkered at times
3. Not really close to family (apart from my two boys) got lots of good friends whom I miss lots.

that only leaves what I didnt like in the Uk. I spent nearly three years getting my visa and can now truthfully say that as that time passed I began to gradually hate more and more my life here.

But now Im back! Im not exactly loving it (me and teenage son living in two bed flat with mum, no guarantee of permanent work) If you were to ask me if Im settled then no, if Id go back, then I would have to say I dont know (however time is running out on that option)

As I have read on these forums before, I feel as if im in limbo land at the moment. Dont fit in anywhere!

sorry if this is confusing, thats the state of my mind at the moment.
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