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does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Old Feb 4th 2024, 1:26 pm
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Default does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

I know that HMRC needs people to report oversea income. Does HMRC need people to report oversea bank account or 401k like Fbar? I assume no? If you just have 401k, but do not receive any distribution, I assume there will be no tax from HMRC, just like IRS to UK employment pension?
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Old Feb 4th 2024, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by Helen1234
I know that HMRC needs people to report oversea income. Does HMRC need people to report oversea bank account or 401k like Fbar? I assume no? If you just have 401k, but do not receive any distribution, I assume there will be no tax from HMRC, just like IRS to UK employment pension?
From my limited experience living in the UK since 2006, with a 403(b) in the US, the only reporting I had to do to HMRC was when I started withdrawing from my 403(b), at which point I had to pay income tax on that 403(b)-related income.
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Old Feb 4th 2024, 6:19 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by dunroving
From my limited experience living in the UK since 2006, with a 403(b) in the US, the only reporting I had to do to HMRC was when I started withdrawing from my 403(b), at which point I had to pay income tax on that 403(b)-related income.
many thanks. So the only to do is when you stating receive the income, just report the US income just like your UK income in the self-assessment, right? I think you do not need to report anything about your US bank account unless you receive US bank interests and report it as income, right?

Last edited by Helen1234; Feb 4th 2024 at 6:24 pm.
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Old Feb 4th 2024, 7:36 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by Helen1234
many thanks. So the only to do is when you stating receive the income, just report the US income just like your UK income in the self-assessment, right? I think you do not need to report anything about your US bank account unless you receive US bank interests and report it as income, right?
Yes, just report in the overseas pensions section of the self-assessment. Same when/if you receive US Social Security pension.

Not sure about bank interest, as I no longer have a US bank account.
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 9:12 am
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

HMRC exchanges information with agencies in other countries.
This includes banks. HMRC may be made aware that you have an account but perhaps they do not have specific details.
In that case, they are likely to send a "fishing" letter which states something like "we have been made aware that you have overseas bank accounts. You have not declared these to us and this may be due to an oversight or the result of incorrect advice.
You are required to declare such accounts to HMRC and we will give you this opportunity to declare any such accounts to us".
They do not tell you which accounts they are referring to and are relying on the guilt of the individual to declare all.
Where there is an outstanding tax liability then there would be a bill for the unpaid tax plus a penalty plus interest.
AFAIK where there is no tax liability or the tax due is under the annual threshhold then there is nothing to pay.
HTH
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by dunroving
Yes, just report in the overseas pensions section of the self-assessment. Same when/if you receive US Social Security pension.

Not sure about bank interest, as I no longer have a US bank account.
many thanks. Got it. So, before receiving the pension distribution, you have nothing to declare and therefore there is no need to declare account or pension account to HMRC in advance, right?
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 2:23 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by cyrian
HMRC exchanges information with agencies in other countries.
This includes banks. HMRC may be made aware that you have an account but perhaps they do not have specific details.
In that case, they are likely to send a "fishing" letter which states something like "we have been made aware that you have overseas bank accounts. You have not declared these to us and this may be due to an oversight or the result of incorrect advice.
You are required to declare such accounts to HMRC and we will give you this opportunity to declare any such accounts to us".
They do not tell you which accounts they are referring to and are relying on the guilt of the individual to declare all.
Where there is an outstanding tax liability then there would be a bill for the unpaid tax plus a penalty plus interest.
AFAIK where there is no tax liability or the tax due is under the annual threshhold then there is nothing to pay.
HTH
many thanks. I think in the self-assessment, there is no place to declare oversea bank account, or pension account (such as Fbar to tell them what account I have and how much I have). So, just declare the oversea income, not the oversea bank account, pension account etc. Is it correct?
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 2:30 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by Helen1234
many thanks. I think in the self-assessment, there is no place to declare oversea bank account, or pension account (such as Fbar to tell them what account I have and how much I have). So, just declare the oversea income, not the oversea bank account, pension account etc. Is it correct?
Exactly what I do. I have US pensions, and US dividends from a taxable brokerage account and simply declare the income, using the HMRC official exchange rates in the months the money arrives. An exception to the exchange rate calculation is SS which is paid directly to our bank account so just report the total of amounts received.
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 3:38 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by durham_lad
Exactly what I do. I have US pensions, and US dividends from a taxable brokerage account and simply declare the income, using the HMRC official exchange rates in the months the money arrives. An exception to the exchange rate calculation is SS which is paid directly to our bank account so just report the total of amounts received.
many thanks. I think it means you do not declare any US pension account and brokerage account to the HMRC, right?
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 7:24 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by Helen1234
many thanks. I think it means you do not declare any US pension account and brokerage account to the HMRC, right?
Correct, I just declare the dividend and capital gains distributions from my US brokerage accounts, I don’t report any balances.

Same goes for the US pension accounts.

since I pay both IRS and HMRC taxes on that US income I use foreign tax credits to claim back the HMRC tax using IRS form 1116, with the box checked labeled “Resourced by Treaty” because otherwise US income would not be counted as foreign income.
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Old Feb 5th 2024, 8:54 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by durham_lad
Correct, I just declare the dividend and capital gains distributions from my US brokerage accounts, I don’t report any balances.

Same goes for the US pension accounts.

since I pay both IRS and HMRC taxes on that US income I use foreign tax credits to claim back the HMRC tax using IRS form 1116, with the box checked labeled “Resourced by Treaty” because otherwise US income would not be counted as foreign income.
many thanks
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Old Feb 6th 2024, 11:06 am
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by Helen1234
many thanks. Got it. So, before receiving the pension distribution, you have nothing to declare and therefore there is no need to declare account or pension account to HMRC in advance, right?
I certainly didn't declare the existence of my 403(b) to HMRC until I started receiving income from it, in the 2016-2017 tax year. The Men in Black haven't knocked at my door yet, so I'm guessing everything is OK.
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Old Feb 6th 2024, 2:13 pm
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Default Re: does UK have anything like Fbar or 8938?

Originally Posted by dunroving
I certainly didn't declare the existence of my 403(b) to HMRC until I started receiving income from it, in the 2016-2017 tax year. The Men in Black haven't knocked at my door yet, so I'm guessing everything is OK.
Ditto.

If we were not declaring income I don't know that there even is a form simply for stating balances of foreign accounts. The only time HMRC would be interested in account balances is when claiming benefits, and when you die to determine inheritance tax.
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