Eeyore

It's not hard to work out. It's no great secret that Jumeirah is full of the long-term expats who've been here for seven or eight years or more - they're the ones who came here back in the days when full packages were much more common than they are now.

Indeed they are. Consider a typical family of four, with both kids being school-age:

How much is rent for a 3-bed villa in Jumeirah for someone arriving now? Probably 300k as a bare minimum. That's 25,000 dhs per month just in rent. Add on school fees? DEWA? Food? Transport? Entertainment? Something left over for saving? You're looking at needing one *hell* of a salary to afford to live in Jumeirah without a huge amount of company help.

If you don't get a housing allowance from your company and have to take a bank loan to pay your rent, you need to be earning a minimum of 50k per month in order to be able to take a loan for 300k over a year (most banks apply the "50-55% of monthly salary" rule in respect of the size of loan repayments). And that's to be able to afford anything at the *bottom* end of the Jumeirah market.

Given that by the Dubai government's own figures, just 4.6% of residents earn 20k per month or above, you can imagine how small the percentage earning 50k or above is. In most cases, that will be a senior management salary - and if you're senior management, chances are you're on a full package anyway.

Meow

Who knew you were in HR & knew all about everyone's income?!

So 4.6% of residents earn above 20K - that'll be nearly all 'Western' expats then!

I know that a lot of people earn a good salary & aren't scraping money together to live above their means. Many, many people have a thing called 'savings' and so can afford to pay rent up front. Despite your insistance, not everyone has to borrow to pay rent.

You may not be able to afford your outgoings, but you really should accept that many people are in a better position. Oh and not all 'senior management' as you call them are on these 'packages'. As has been pointed out to you again and again, the 'package' isnt the be all & end all - not if you are paid a good wage.

arbroath_abroad

meow, hate to correct you but it's *savings*

Zannie

What made you think that?

Believe me, if it wasn't worth our while staying here, we'd have left ages ago.

Meow

Hi Zannie!

Your husband seem to think that everything is very costly & too expensive. He always moans about rents & how everyone has to borrow to pay it. Oh & is obsessed by 'packages' (you may want to have a chat about this!).

Can you ask him to lighten up please? Or I shall just keep referring to him as Eeyore.

Zannie

Well, compared to when we arrived it has become vastly more expensive to live here and he's just making a general comparison (not a personal one).

We're doing well here, not as well as we could have been three years ago, but I'm sure that's the same for most of us.

He's lovely in real life!! BC will agree with me

Zx

typical

Packages where housing is paid for directly by the company, rather than through salary top-up does present an element of moral hazard if the employee does the price negotiation... and may push up prices.

I've no idea how common this would be, though.

Eeyore

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. Where do I say that I know "all about everyone's income"?

I'm simply quoting the Dubai government's own figures - which, being official, are probably on the optimistic side, wouldn't you agree?

If only 4.6% of Dubai residents earn 20k, surely even you can deduce that the percentage earning 50k or above (the bare minimum needed to rent a villa in Jumeirah using a bank loan if you get no company help) is going to be even smaller.

Indeed. And I'm sure you're also aware that a great many people in Dubai - even many of those on good salaries - *do* live beyond their means because credit is so easy to come by here and there are so many shallow people who put appearances before financial prudence.

I've never once "insisted" that "everyone" has to borrow to pay rent, although I *have* said that the number of people having to take bank loans to pay their rent has risen sharply over the last few years, and will continue to rise as fewer and fewer companies offer a proper rent allowance.

You're meant to be an IFA, aren't you? I do hope, for the sake of your clients, that you're more accurate in your financial dealings than you are in debate

At what point have I ever said that I can't afford our outgoings? On the contrary, I've said numerous times that we're better off here than we were in the UK.

Are you one of those people who simply can't understand why anyone who's in a comfortable position could care about anyone else?

Cham128

instead of the "packages" that used to be the norm, doesn't it mean that bonuses are a lot higher as well as the basic salary would have increased?

Meow

Lovely argument Gareth. It's just too dull to carry on discussing anything with you I'm afraid. This is just a messge board, not the Houses of Parliament. I just find it sad that you must insist in being right, sorry *right* all the time.

And yes I am an IFA - a very successful one. Your snide comment is un-necessary. As I said this is just a message board, not my work.

expat.brat

It is Gareth's attitude that makes me violent..

Eeyore

You mean you'd prefer to be able to misrepresent what I've said without me pointing it out? Be honest

Stop misrepresenting what I've said, and/or inventing assertions about me to try and suit your argument, and I won't have to point out that you're wrong quite so often.

Deal?

Eva

Sorry Ins.........hope you feeling better
Her Fluffiness.........formerly Her Huffiness

Inselaffen

feeling better thanks HRH Fluff!

IndieG

what is false? I have been here 13 years and have never met any 'false' people. Do you mean pretentious? Haven't met any pretentious people either......