shake2000

Hello All,

To start off, I am Canadian but sadly have not been able to find a Canadian expat forum.. so here I am.

I am currently in discussion for a potential role with HMC (grade 112) and was hoping to get your input. From what I know today, the role includes accomodation, return airfare for family and education for children (up to a limit ofcourse).

The concerns I have are:
1. Does anyone know the type of accomodation they provide? Barwa city keeps coming up, how far and how good is this place?
2. What should the budget be for a family (2 adults 1 infant, 4 months)? I have an under grad and graduate degree and am currently doing well in Canada (Management Consultant)
3. Any idea how HMC is to work at?

The usual school admissions etc are not my issue at this time so it mainly comes down to accomodation and money, would love to get your input.

Any information you can provide will be much appreciated.
Thank you for your help!!

shake2000

I know everyone is researching my questions to get me detailed answers... but anything you can share today will be helpful, don't spend too much time on it.

Thank you everyone!

OleJanx

This might be out of date, but Ghanim Gardens, behind the Centre/ Megamart might suit you. as it is fairly centrsl

As far as I know the maintainance is OK, but I first lived there in 1982, but I was there again last year, and they seemed to be in good order, even if they are not huge houses.

At the last count there were 2 swimming pools and possibly a third ( bit of a paddling pool the third one)

britexpat76

No Idea of accommodation for a family but Barwa village will be a nightmare with trafic and its miles away. HMC put a lot of their single/couples in Al Saad which is next door and a good place to live.

Regarding costs see this:-

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=762609

Are they any good to work for? Only insight I can give is that I have bought lots of cars from people that have been fired with little or no warning and no good reason.

Benny80

1-
My take on Barwa city is that it is a new mid price range development mostly consisting of 2 and 3 bed apartments that will rent for around 7500 QAR per month. Inside the development it is ok ish with green open spaces and some amenities like sports center and nurseries (Dunno if they are open yet). The bad thing about it is that it is in the middle of nowhere surrounded by the industrial area on one side and desert on the other, and as far as i know they have not yet opened any restaurants or supermarket on site, and dunno if they ever will...

People with a young familly tend to prefer more to be in a compund villa but in terms of cost i think that is more likely to cost around 14,000 QAR per month.

To be honest i feel the mid cost housing options in Doha are very disappointing compared to what the same money will get you in other places that i have lived such as Dubai. Barwa City is nothing special but relative to the competition in Doha at this price range it looks not so bad.

2-
In terms of cost of living it is difficult to say because it really depends on how flash you want to be. but you will definitely want a car to get around

3-
no idea how HMC is to work for.

shake2000

Thank you all.

I understand there can be unlimited variables involved in the budget question so it is very hard to answer.

Appreciate your inputs on accomodation. For now I have no idea what it will be, I was only stating Barwa city based on what I have read on other forums, will see where it goes.

Britexpat - thanks for the heads up... I will surely reach out to you when the time comes to get a car .. lets hope I will not need to sell it back for the reason you have stated

Thank you again, really appreciate it!

Moses2013

@shake2000. My question would be why you want to move, if you're doing well in Canada? Is it just for money, hot weather, change. Don't forget that your only holidays will be in Canada (if you have family there) and will have the stress all over again, moving back. Nobody stays in Qatar forever, so why bother moving to the desert? If it's for change, there are far nicer places. Ok there are a lot of sporting activities, but mostly indoors, so you'd be just as well off at home + could save your holidays to visit other places.

britexpat76

Why does his holidays have to be in Canada? One of the plus points for Doha is its an excellent hub for travel and seeing destinations the average Canadian wouldn't get to see as flights would be long/expensive from home.

Moses2013

Of course his holidays don't have to be in Canada, but all I'm saying is that most people will go back home for holidays if they have family. There are also other places that have an airport (also Canada:-). I'm just asking for the reasons, especially with a child. Europe has a lot to offer too and it's great time for qualified people thanks to the recession. You could work in Germany and would be able to fly to Spain in 2 Hours if you want some heat during winter

britexpat76

Like tax?

mikewot

Yes, I miss paying 40% tax on my income, 20% tax on clothing/food etc. Goodness knows how much tax on fuel etc. It's just not the same in these foreign places.

Moses2013

That's fine if you think that's the case. I was born in Jersey (Channel Islands) and despite low taxes wasn't better off. I was also offered a job in Doha with a better salary, but it depends what you want in life. I decided to move to Ireland during the recession and bought 2 years ago while prices were at their lowest + have mortgage interest relief. Thanks to the recession I've saved thousands and my friends coming back will have to pay 40-50K for a similiar property in a desirable area. I just don't understand why people move to a place like Qatar, when they aren't really interested in the countries culture or people, want the things they get at home and eventually come back anyway? Don't get fooled by the tax, as every country works different. I might be paying 20% on my salary, but as I'm in the EU I qualify for unemployment benefits and are collecting years for my states pension. I don't have to worry, as my mortgage is less than €400 a month, so for me it works. As mentioned, everyone is different and I would always recommend to invest when the boom is over and not when it's happening. The US has just as much to offer now and there are jobs for qualified people with cheap housing available + the benefit of being close to Canada. At the end of the day, he won't be doing anything in Doha, that he couldn't do in Florida. Sure, if you're managing to save 30-50K more and enjoy it, that's fine. It was just a question.

Moses2013

And again regarding Tax. Yes, it might be higher in Germany but other things are cheaper (food, housing) free schools and good education. Social Security and the benefit of being in the middle of Europe is also a plus. He could visit other countries and have a great flight connection back home, or to other places. So, despite Tax still a great option.

shake2000

Moses – All valid points, I will not even argue on them but will share my point of view.

For me the reason is personal and financial. I am originally from Pakistan, with all, if not majority of my extended family there. My wife's family is spread between Pakistan and Kenya... so that is the personal part. I want to be closer to her and my family especially now that we're starting this new phase of our life. Currently we go back during Christmas... looking to the future with $1,500 ticket per person and burning 2 weeks of my precious 4 week vacation on the trip is not something I want to do. Plus, I still have not been able to go to Africa or Europe or Asia due to timing issues… plan is to do some travelling without the 10 hour jetlags!

That was all personal but still something I can live with as I really like Canada and living in Toronto; I have nothing to complain on the people or other fronts… except cost of living.

The other major reason is financial. I completely agree with you on the opportunities near home but I still believe they come with equal risk just in a different form.
I currently work for an organization where I seldom travel to the U.S and work with colleagues there. The issue about job cuts etc remains wherever you go. I have seen amazingly qualified people get cut for absolutely no reason at all... so to me personally job security is a myth; your job is not secure no matter where you are in the world. You're working for a business that will use you until they can... best to watch out for yourself.
Second, for unemployment benefits, what you get is really not much.. about $600 per month... I doubt anyone can survive on that if the time comes so to me cash in hand is golden. The government does provide with vehicles to save such as registered plans etc…. but I am more concerned with what I will need tomorrow and not when I hit 65.. I don’t even know if I will be alive then. Again, cash is golden and I would rather save and spend my way.
Third, the tax rate.. oh the taxes in Canada. I am at a level where my marginal tax rate is 47% and then you tag on 13% HST on EVERYTHING. So basically at the end of the day I am left with 40% of my starting income. When it comes Bonus time, 50% is taxed straight… it hurts. I understand the argument that we get free medical and education but I don’t believe in that either. If I am employed, which I plan to be, my employer will always have me covered for health insurance… so basically I am not even using the benefits I am paying for. I also understand the argument is we are paying into a system to help when we need it… but I would still rather spend when I need to. It is against the whole principle but just my opinion. For Education… personal choice but I do not want to send my kids to public school especially how the curriculum is now. No one fails and there is no competition… what does that mean? I followed the British schooling system and did just well… I am all for that. O Levels and A Levels are the way to go. Again, personal choice. Also, the cost of good daycare is around $2,000 per month… considering the hassle and worries, it just means we’re better off with the wifey not working for a while.
Last and not the least is housing. The Toronto housing market is inflated and set for a bust. The townhouse I am in and bought 4 years ago has gone up by around $250K… that is just insane. To buy a normal 3-4 bedroom house in the suburbs you now need to dish out at least $800K…. where am I supposed to get that kind of money from?? I am currently 10 minutes outside of downtown in a townhouse with a move pending in the next 4-5 years… the costs just scare me. Also, the option of moving to the U.S has been considered. I have family living around 40 minutes outside Philadelphia who own a mansion for the same price that I paid for my townhouse… but again, small town living is not for us.
In summary, financially I see my expenses rising far more than my income which has lead to the decision to move. The personal and family reasons just help soften the blow. I understand that no one moves to Qatar for good but I am one of the exceptions to that… I understand it is risky but I believe based on the qualifications and my experience, I should be able to find something in the region if I end up in that situation, for now I do not plan to return until much later in life, then again, things chance so who knows.

No one has to agree with my reasons but I am just saying based on the ongoing discussion.

Moses2013

Hi shake2000. All valid points and since you're not originally from Canada a complete different story:-) What annoys me in general, is that a lot of expats move to the middle east and aren't really interested in the culture and just live in their own world. What makes travelling worthwile is meeting locals and learning their culture history, but it hardly happens there. We all need to make a living and I completely understand what you mean. Unfortunately places like Canada, Australia are all booming, but the downside is that housing has become unaffordable. The same happened here and in one way the recession was the best thing that could happen (I know it sounds bad). Despite all the negative comments regarding Ireland, as a first time buyer it was paradise here. I managed to buy a 4 bed house with big garden 0.5 acres for under 100K. For me the most important was to have a decent home I can afford without being a top manager. I could work on minimum wage and would still survive, as I don't need too much and there's space to grow some food too. The neighbours are all friendly and despite all the rain we get, it's possible to get a cheap holiday and enjoy some sun I was just interested why you wanted to move to Doha. As an example, I would never move to London for a better pay. The place is too overcrowded for me and I don't see the point of wasting all my money for a tiny flat. Eventually the bubble will burst there too and people won't be able to afford their mortgages, just like it is in some major cities in the US. That's just my opinion and since everyone is different, people won't always agree.