Mumbai attacks...
Nov 27th 2008, 11:00 pm
#46
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
HP.... as House of Parliament i presume?
maybe been reading too much Private eye
Nov 27th 2008, 11:05 pm
#47
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Posts: 7,646
Re: Mumbai attacks...
Pm me your life story pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
HP is Harry Potter -one of the young ladies in a Fedora from another boarding school-French,they were
Private Eye?????? O h yeh Every Sunday.............Credo...
Nov 27th 2008, 11:09 pm
#48
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
Conclusion:
Within 24 hours of the first attack, suddenly so-efficient Mumbai police and the country's intelligence agencies have claimed to crack the case (according to Indian news agencies). The agency's sources are saying that the attack was planned in Pakistan and a trawler is used to transport the people involved in the terror attack. The same agencies are now saying that a stolen fishboat is also used to transport them to Mumbai seashores and went further claiming in a special boat. The sources are not done here, added further that these people came to Mumbai on Nov 18. It seems to me that they were very familiar with the city geographical locations and drove around shooting people (perhaps with the help of a GPS). How ridiculous?
Within 24 hours of the first attack, suddenly so-efficient Mumbai police and the country's intelligence agencies have claimed to crack the case (according to Indian news agencies). The agency's sources are saying that the attack was planned in Pakistan and a trawler is used to transport the people involved in the terror attack. The same agencies are now saying that a stolen fishboat is also used to transport them to Mumbai seashores and went further claiming in a special boat. The sources are not done here, added further that these people came to Mumbai on Nov 18. It seems to me that they were very familiar with the city geographical locations and drove around shooting people (perhaps with the help of a GPS). How ridiculous?
The way this issue is being dealt with says alot about the state of Indian interior intelligence agencies
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
Nov 28th 2008, 12:34 am
#49
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 25
Re: Mumbai attacks...
The way this issue is being dealt with says alot about the state of Indian interior intelligence agencies
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
The heads should rolls but that won't alone change much until the security system is re-evaluated.
Since you know a lot about the political system in India, There is a clear winner emerging out frorm this deadly fiasco which is BHARTIYA JANATA PARTY returning to power in 2009.
Nov 28th 2008, 1:17 am
#50
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
You are absolutely right, i'm not a fan of indian security forces.
The heads should rolls but that won't alone change much until the security system is re-evaluated.
Since you know a lot about the political system in India, There is a clear winner emerging out frorm this deadly fiasco which is BHARTIYA JANATA PARTY returning to power in 2009.
The heads should rolls but that won't alone change much until the security system is re-evaluated.
Since you know a lot about the political system in India, There is a clear winner emerging out frorm this deadly fiasco which is BHARTIYA JANATA PARTY returning to power in 2009.
However, even their NSG commandos appear to be a bit ill-equipped compared to standard Western teams, even local US SWAT teams let alone the Met in London
Btw
Israelis are already on the ground as a small team has been there since September.... apparently the IDF have sent highly-trained commandos to provide instruction in counter-terror, urban warfare and anti-guerrilla tactics. But Indians are reluctant to allow they enter this siege theatre for obvious reasons
And since one of Obama's chief advisor's on foreign policy is a girl with RSS roots, his latest worded statement on this matter had BJP written all over it
Last edited by alfrombarking; Nov 28th 2008 at 1:19 am.
Nov 28th 2008, 2:18 am
#51
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Posts: 4,553
Re: Mumbai attacks...
I don't have any "highly placed" relative in Govt. ...blah...blah. And even if my BIL told me about the Pak element, I wouldn't post it.
Sorry - I saw the PM's address to the nation and the interview with the Home Minister on tv. Guess they were speculating too when one said "foreign forces at work" and the other squarely said some of the militants were from Pakistan but refused to give further details. I posted after I saw them on TV, so no, I wasn't speculating.
You seem to know better....may be they were not from Pakistan. So who are some of these "foreign forces"? Let's see - were some of the militants from Britian, US, Australia, China, or no wait, Israel perhaps? No idea....
Don't always blame intelligence agencies. It appears in this case, they did warn businesses (Taj, Oberoi) and the polce some days back - about intended attacks after they intercepted some phone calls...
Sorry - I saw the PM's address to the nation and the interview with the Home Minister on tv. Guess they were speculating too when one said "foreign forces at work" and the other squarely said some of the militants were from Pakistan but refused to give further details. I posted after I saw them on TV, so no, I wasn't speculating.
You seem to know better....may be they were not from Pakistan. So who are some of these "foreign forces"? Let's see - were some of the militants from Britian, US, Australia, China, or no wait, Israel perhaps? No idea....
Don't always blame intelligence agencies. It appears in this case, they did warn businesses (Taj, Oberoi) and the polce some days back - about intended attacks after they intercepted some phone calls...
Nov 28th 2008, 5:51 am
#52
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Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,553
Re: Mumbai attacks...
The way this issue is being dealt with says alot about the state of Indian interior intelligence agencies
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
Yeah, the intelligence agencies in the US, UK....are so much better
So easy to criticise the operation, "commandos", watching it on tv, reading the news reports, while cocooned safely in your room...
I would imagine when there are hostages involved, and the militants could be in any of the 1000 odd rooms in the Taj and the Oberoi, the exercise is not too easy and cut & dry. But then what do I know - I'm just watching it on tv.....
Last edited by IndieG; Nov 28th 2008 at 5:56 am.
Nov 28th 2008, 5:59 am
#53
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
Unfortunately, no matter how good/bad the intelligence agencies around the world are, you cannot stop every incident.
Nov 28th 2008, 1:03 pm
#54
A bubbly-jock...
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Teneriffe
Posts: 6,262
Re: Mumbai attacks...
Off-duty cops don't undertake rappelling from helicopters.
Let's wait and see how they performed..rather than prejudging them, their equipment or ability.
...in addition, the black-clad masked commandos present belong to India's Marine Commando Force known as MARCOS.
Last edited by MacScot; Nov 28th 2008 at 1:27 pm. Reason: additional info
Nov 28th 2008, 1:15 pm
#55
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 25
Re: Mumbai attacks...
I share with you and others the enormous amount of grief for the innocent people who were killed in the attack.
You sound very practical and realistic in your last statement. I'm hundred percent agree with you.
I pray for the families of dead people.
allfrombarking,
You seem very well informed about the India and its offshore RSS connection. Out of curiousity, are you also of indian origin?
Nov 28th 2008, 2:00 pm
#56
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 25
Re: Mumbai attacks...
The way this issue is being dealt with says alot about the state of Indian interior intelligence agencies
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
And please don't get me started about the so called Indian "Commandos"
From what I've seen on telly they come across as off duty cops.I am sure Shin Bet or Kidon have probably landed and wouldn't be surprised to hear all Israeli hostages have been freed while Indian "commandos" are still struggling with a bunch of trouble makers with nothing but M-16's if not 47's
All in all once this siege is over I hope Indians will ask hard questions esp those responsible for their security
Nov 28th 2008, 7:23 pm
#57
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
The "commandos" are India's elite National Security Guard commando unit.
Off-duty cops don't undertake rappelling from helicopters.
Let's wait and see how they performed..rather than prejudging them, their equipment or ability.
...in addition, the black-clad masked commandos present belong to India's Marine Commando Force known as MARCOS.
Off-duty cops don't undertake rappelling from helicopters.
Let's wait and see how they performed..rather than prejudging them, their equipment or ability.
...in addition, the black-clad masked commandos present belong to India's Marine Commando Force known as MARCOS.
No one is questioning the bravery of the men, however, in the future, I would think the Indian government should spend some money to upgrade their equipment to be better prepared for future incidents.
MEANWHILE FROM THE TIMES OF INDIA ......
Cops fall victim to faulty helmets, useless bulletproof jackets
The dated protective gear they now use can save them only from stone-pelting, not assault of sophisticated guns
PRIYANKA BORPUJARI
Fourteen police personnel laid down their lives while battling the terrorists who held Mumbai to ransom on Wednesday night, and throughout Thursday. The entire force was greatly disadvantaged by heavy bulletproof jackets that didn't halt bullets from AK 47s, and helmets that provided no real protection.
The danger of this was brought home by two of Wednesday's most tragic events — bullets penetrating ACP Ashok Kamte’s head in spite of his helmet, and ATS chief Hemant Karkare succumbing to bullet injuries on his chest in spite of his bulletproof jacket.
The Mumbai police had ordered bulletproof jackets in bulk in 1992. The department purchased another batch of jackets in 2002, but surprisingly, there was no improvement in weight or design. Now, it has 885 jackets, of which 109 cannot be used at all, 715 have been distributed among policemen and 61 are lying in the storeroom unused. According to officers in the armoury department, jackets are often returned smelly and unwashed after use. Pockets meant for heavy metal plates — which are only as big as an A4 size paper — are often torn. Sometimes, the metal plates of jackets procured in 1992 are completely rusted.
According to KL Prasad, joint commissioner of police (law and order), the police budget is very low and so the best equipment cannot be bought.
On the quality of helmets bought for the police force, Vinay Kargaonkar, additional commissioner of police (protection), said, “There are many types of helmets available, made of different materials. Mumbai policemen primarily wear helmets made of steel. But there has been quite an advancement in the quality of helmets available, like Kevlar.” However, when Mumbai Mirror asked him whether policemen had ever been injured because of an ineffective helmet, Kargaonkar said he didn’t know. Most police personnel deployed in the city wear helmets with a metallic netted veil. Kargaonkar agreed that such helmets are effective only against stone-pelting, not bullets from sophisticated firearms.
On the other hand:
Constable Gavahne saved by his belt, deflected 2 bullets (Times of India)
Last edited by alfrombarking; Nov 28th 2008 at 7:28 pm.
Nov 28th 2008, 7:49 pm
#59
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
I don't have any "highly placed" relative in Govt. ...blah...blah. And even if my BIL told me about the Pak element, I wouldn't post it.
Sorry - I saw the PM's address to the nation and the interview with the Home Minister on tv. Guess they were speculating too when one said "foreign forces at work" and the other squarely said some of the militants were from Pakistan but refused to give further details. I posted after I saw them on TV, so no, I wasn't speculating.
You seem to know better....may be they were not from Pakistan. So who are some of these "foreign forces"? Let's see - were some of the militants from Britian, US, Australia, China, or no wait, Israel perhaps? No idea....
Don't always blame intelligence agencies. It appears in this case, they did warn businesses (Taj, Oberoi) and the polce some days back - about intended attacks after they intercepted some phone calls...
Sorry - I saw the PM's address to the nation and the interview with the Home Minister on tv. Guess they were speculating too when one said "foreign forces at work" and the other squarely said some of the militants were from Pakistan but refused to give further details. I posted after I saw them on TV, so no, I wasn't speculating.
You seem to know better....may be they were not from Pakistan. So who are some of these "foreign forces"? Let's see - were some of the militants from Britian, US, Australia, China, or no wait, Israel perhaps? No idea....
Don't always blame intelligence agencies. It appears in this case, they did warn businesses (Taj, Oberoi) and the polce some days back - about intended attacks after they intercepted some phone calls...
the terrorist above pix is holding an mpiks if im not wrong.who has them in the region?i heard India has bought some in early 90's.could they be homegrown extremists?
trigger discipline.Well built,not tall,look at his forearm.reminds me of that theory that elite forces look for not so tall ppl coz small bodies suit better on harsh conditions.
Nov 28th 2008, 7:53 pm
#60
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Re: Mumbai attacks...
Just watched - 93 people rescued from the Oberoi (some coming out with babies and children)...
Yeah, the intelligence agencies in the US, UK....are so much better
So easy to criticise the operation, "commandos", watching it on tv, reading the news reports, while cocooned safely in your room...
I would imagine when there are hostages involved, and the militants could be in any of the 1000 odd rooms in the Taj and the Oberoi, the exercise is not too easy and cut & dry. But then what do I know - I'm just watching it on tv.....
Yeah, the intelligence agencies in the US, UK....are so much better
So easy to criticise the operation, "commandos", watching it on tv, reading the news reports, while cocooned safely in your room...
I would imagine when there are hostages involved, and the militants could be in any of the 1000 odd rooms in the Taj and the Oberoi, the exercise is not too easy and cut & dry. But then what do I know - I'm just watching it on tv.....
Furthermore, what strikes me most is the fact the there are hundreds of civilians milling around all the operational areas...
Shouldnt a sterile perimeter be stricly enforced?? its been over 48 hours now.
On a flipside..didnt India bought israeli Tavors for their CT/SF units?