http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12433045

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...celebrate.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ests-live.html

and:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...rak-from-power

The best news I have heard in many years - I am born and bred in UK but my parents both left Egypt 30 years ago due to that man! Today they bought flights home for the first time in 30 years 11022011 a day for the history books

Z

All well and good if Egypt becomes a truly democratic State.... less good if it becomes controlled by the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The last 30 years Egypt was fully controlled by America and American military aid is what made that happen, that did not help it much - they fully supported a dictator and it made 80mn people suffer very badly and turned a blind eye as long as it it stayed "yes sir no sir".

The easiest parallel to make with the Brotherhood is the way Turkey is run - it is currently being run by a Muslim government - dont see anyone who has an issue with that. They got their EU membership during the same presidency - the news on the Brotherhood is what gives the impression they will do what ever people are scared of, the fact on the ground is very different. They do have lots of support by Egyptians and at the end of the day that is what counts not what external powers want as that will ensure the country stays where it is now.

Most importantly - their chief was on TV last week saying they have no intention of running the country but they would like to be in part of any government that is formed, which makes lots of sense as in a true democracy the voice of the population should be heard and when the population is made up majority Muslims (Secular Muslins as in Turkey) not having them in the government will in no way represent the people.

Obviously this is my personal view and i am sure everyone has a view on what is going to happen next - so lets see and lets hope that Egypt returns to the people and does not continue to be a puppet state.

Z

Egypt is controlled by its millitary. If anything that's likely to be more the case now than it ever was, as they are now viewed as the 'good guys'.
Anything that has 'the Brotherhood' in its name needs to be avoided like the plague.

Turkey is not a member of the EU. In fact they are a very long way off full membership, human rights is a major sticking point which is closely related to the fact they still have some laws based on Muslim traditions or culture.

Yep my mistake - I meant to say an Associate member which has full trade and economic ties etc...

What's a "secular Muslim"? Islam does not support Secularism, only theocracy.

N.

None of the "big three" support true secularism in their current forms

I would class myself as a secular Muslim, read, write and speak Arabic, read the Quraan in full (Saying that I have also read the Bible and Torah) and made my own interpretation to the meaning - I do not pray five times a day, but follow the basic principles, such as fasting, zakaat, how to write a will so on and so forth, my wife is practising prays five times a day, but does not cover her hair and goes clubbing as an other example. Different interpretation of the book opens the door to a more secular way of life - Everyone has had to adapt, people are adapting to ensure life goes whilst adhering to the basic principles.

Obviously this is a personal view

Indeed, I suspect as many Muslims would agree as would disagree with you

Personally don't need Semitic books of dubious origin to decide what is right or wrong and am secure enough in my culture and heritage to remove what I see as invader religions like Christianity and Islam from my spiritual radar....but each to their own. As long as religion and state are completely separate my only objections are personal opinion

N.

About time

Always nice to see virtually any situation can be tied to blaming Zionism.

Didn't the Nazi's also do that, just blame the Jews for everything? What am I talking about, Mein Kampf is a bestseller in many middle eastern countries!

N.

Is there not a clear difference between Judaism and Zionism?
My understanding is that Zionism is more of a political movement, and its followers are not all Jewish, whereas Judaism is the religion and all its followers are Jewish.

Blaming something on Zionism is very different to saying it was the Jews fault. There are many many Jewish people, Jewish websites, groups, that are very anti Zionism - and from what I have understood/read of Zionsim and its mantra, rightfully so