Inselaffen

knowing my luck there'll be no decent ones available then

expat.brat

Aren't you just full of optimism. I bet if you were offered an ultra luxurious villa in Dubai for free, you would walk around it, point out the tiniest, most minor defect and declare that the property was uninhabitable for you and your family.

Oh well, you know what they say, those that don't take risks don't win.

Eeyore

Then you'll be disquieted to learn, BR, that the JBR apartments rented by my colleagues are about halfway up and with sea views... and they were very negotiable indeed.

I appreciate that you've swallowed the Dubai PR dream hook, line and sinker, but you didn't see "any evidence" of falling rents at JBR either.

Maybe an eye test is in order?

Eeyore

Of course, many highly intelligent people take risks and *don't* win.

And many people who aren't as intelligent but who have the sheer dumb luck to be in the right place at the right time *do* win.

It's all swings and roundabouts.

captainflack

Not true obviously. Any sensible investor should balance risks and hedge to reduce them. Many property investors are amateurs and are 100% in property. That is a recipe for financial ruin. Anyone who tells you a 20% annual return comes with minimal risk is a shyster. Risk and reward are closely related, any investor who does not understand this is doomed. A 20% return is telling you something if you can only get 7% on a fixed bond. Too many property investors seem oblivious to this. They actually think it's a safe investment.

And those that take risks while convinced it's "safe as houses" are also the ones who tend to end up destitute:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...roperty101.xml

...40% price drops in a year on new build apartments in a country we're constantly told has a 'shortage' of property and a sound economy. Sound familiar?

Border Reiver

Well, as I said, some landlords will always be more "enthusiastic" to negotiate than others, depending on their personal circumstances and how well they did the maths in the first place.

To give us all an idea of how much the rents are negotiable, can you tell us how much the original asking price of said apartment was and how much the tenants finally got it for?

Border Reiver

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I have a property in the UK which is rented out and the rent does indeed fall short of the mortgage payments. I don't mind (much!) subsidizing it because it is "home". Good job I'm making so much on rentals in Dubai then, eh.

As a matter interest, how does the rate of population growth for Nottingham (or Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle or Leeds) compare with Dubai?

captainflack

As a matter of interest, how many of these cities have the sky blighted by row upon row upon row of cranes towering over empty apartment blocks?

As another matter of interest, how much of their population growth is going to be made up from people who make less than 10 quid a day?

Of course, when the US market took a nosedive the UK BTL brigade said it could not happen in the UK because there was a shortage of property. Apparently there isn't! Turns out much of the demand was just speculators, there were just not enough real people to fill the property.

I'm sure Dubai will be safe though, I mean 99% of property is bought by people who want to live in it themselves and not by speculators convinced that the influx of 300,000 construction workers will create a massive market for their rabbit hutch in JBR.

My business is making plenty of tax free lolly here and is not exposed to any significant risks in the markets. I'd sooner keep half the cash in gold and then pick up a few cheap flats in the UK after the previous owners have thrown themselves from the top floor

lionheart

You are talking utter rubbish and you know it...as for taking risks, feel free to throw your own money around but let others use their better judgement...anybody speculating now in Dubai property has missed the boat by a very long way indeed.

expat.brat

Well seeing as the likes of you and GarethR seem to know so much better, lets have your predictions for the Dubai property market for 2008. Come on lets hear it

expat.brat

Again, what I've said time and time again is that Dubai is not like the UK, US etc for lots of reasons. What other place do you know of where those at the very top i.e. the government can manipulate factors strongly enough to alter the market?

They have a lot at stake and I believe they won't let the market crash. Even if it does, it is a helluva lot better than having to pay rent that is double or even triple 2003/4 rental rates

IndieG

You haven't the faintest clue about me - so please don't talk to me about not winning....not taking risks blah blah....

I do happen to know about the property market and about most developers (and investors) pretty well, considering that we finance both. Enough said.

IndieG

Absolutely spot on

IndieG

Yes indeed, there will be a complete freeze on re-sales, that should teach those trying to crash the market a lesson!

Border Reiver

The prospect of a cheap BTL place in the UK does have a certain amount of appeal.....