Fossildog

Blimey. Not ignorant at all. The influx of foreigners into the UK has been used to drive down wages, to such an extent that you virtually all menial jobs in service industries are now performed by foreigners. That is not an exaggeration, go anywhere in the UK, check into a hotel and you will be served by Agnieska and shown to your room by Serge. Meanwhile over 1m UK youths are unemployed (against a backdrop of some 2m foreign workers allowed in in the last ten years).

We have the situation now in the UK where treatment for cancer patients is now being assessed and routinely refused as the drugs are not deemed cost effective. So don't talk about the 'humane' thing to do as the NHS is now run as a business with each patient classed as a customer.

norsk

Those 1m youths are too busy getting media degrees (wtf?) or consider most of those jobs beneath them....

If the NHS is a business then they need to start operating like one. Blaming their overspend on foreigners is ridiculous. And as far as I am aware they aren't complaining. It's people like you who are....

Meow

Good grief. The problems for the NHS caused by foreigners is nothing compared to the problems of people living too long and of people wanting more and more sophisticated and expensive treatments. Despite this people complain when asked increased payments into the system.

Foreigners get the lower paid jobs as they want to work. Too many British kids have ridiculous expectations and are not willing to start at the bottom. A degree does not qualify anyone for a job. 'They come over here and take our jobs' is usually a line from some layabout who wouldn't dream of taking on a job if he can sit on his arse all day receiving benefits.

Jeez - ignorance abounds...

Fossildog

I agree in part but when you have a benefits system which is so generous as to be viewed as an option rather than a safety net then the problem is compounded.

However, painting all youths as media studying lazy layabouts is just as lazy as the 'Daily Fails' reporting. The truth lies somewhere inbetween.

Is odd as well that both you and the Norwegian chap resort to personal insults to make your points, calling me ignorant and brainless, just because you dont agree with my opinion. Quite telling I think.

norsk

I called your initial comment ignorant as that's exactly what it was. There was nothing personal about it. If you however wish to take be a victim and think that it was then be my guest...

Of course not every young person is the same, but I think you'll find it's mainly those that are who complain about how unfair it is that the 'foreigners are taking all the jobs'. The ones who don't complain are going about life trying to achieve as much as they can with what they have.

I completely agree about the benefit system by the way. It is far to easy to manipulate in its current state and it would be for the best of the country to review it (and actually act on the findings). This is of course not a purely British issue either. Norway has the same problem to a certain extent, although it doesn't seem to be as extreme.

Fossildog

And yet my comment was based on anecdotal evidence so I fail to see how it is ignorant, unless you as a UAE resident Norwegian know what is happening in the UK better than me?

Everyday in the UK you hear and see examples of how services are stretched. From my wife having to teach Polish, Pakistani and Chinese children without them being able to speak basic English. My local doctors surgery looks like the United Nations of Ailments. My sister who lives in a street which is basically a Polish enclave with her being the only British resident.

My friend works as a nurse and routinely has to book a translator for a patient who invariably does not turn up for their appointment. The translator still has to be paid though.

Services are stretched in the UK and it is clear inviting more immigrants over is only going to add to the issues.

norsk

The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it is not necessarily correct....

I've lived in the UK for long enough to know what it's like buddy. I was in fact one of those awful foreigners who took a high paying job away from someone British. I also used the NHS on one or two occasions....

Out of interest what's your solution? Deport all foreigners from the UK?

littlejimmy

Deport all the layabout chav benefit scroungers, probably. Thing is, they serve a purpose (keeping wages low, like immigrants) and are an easy target (also like immigrants).

Fossildog

Why do you describe foreigners as awful? What have they done to deserve that?

This is the trouble with the whole debate. You cant voice your opinion without being called ignorant, brainless or yikes, 'a racist' which I can see you hinting at with your 'Out of interest what's your solution? Deport all foreigners from the UK?' question.

Unfortunately all sensible debate has long been suppressed in the UK by those who cry 'racist' whenever concerns are raised about the UK immigration policy.
Those who pay into the system are expected to shut up and put up. As for my anecdotal evidence being unreliable I will mention that to my wife, she must have imagined having to teach those foreign kids!

Buddy!

norsk

I don't actually think foreigners are awful and I believe most immigrants in the UK actually pay taxes and contribute to society. Why should they not be able to benefit from the services they contribute to the funding of?

The fact that the government is too scared to implement policy to fix some of the issues can't be blamed on foreigners (most of them are not eligible to vote remember). The politicians are probably scared of being called racist.

I never said your wife didn't have those experiences. I just don't buy into the whole 'blame on the immigrants' scenario.

Anyway I'm done with this conversation. It's pretty clear we'll never agree.

The Dean

Some strange comments in this thread.............

That report contains some questionable statistics anyway. Each NHS birth 'costs' GBP 1600 per birth?? Really? That would explain why the NHS claims to be short of funds:

"Did you order the new printer cartridges?"
"Yes - I ordered ten of each colour."
"How much did they cost?"
"GBP 650 million.............."

And why do so many German women come to the UK to give birth? Maybe they are Polish-born German women?

The immigration thing goes far deeper than many people are willing to admit. I'd agree that many immigrants have made a positive contribution to the economy, but that doesn't mean it isn't important enough to discuss. My particular gripe is that you cannot discuss it at all without being labelled as a racist. Discuss it, mind you, not oppose it.

My concern is that we have no right to tell people they can't live in the UK even if we want to because we are in the EU and free movement of labour is one of the pillars of the so-called 'single market', a concept which represents the most pernicious and deceitful piece of legislation imposed on us for a very long time. It's not that immigration is good or bad, it's that we cannot decide for ourselves a policy on it. "You think immigration is a problem? Hey - see what happens if they let Turkey into the EU!" (etc etc)

I'm not sure where Meow got the house prices comment from (he said there was a shortage of housing, which there isn't [that's another myth] - he didn't mention prices).

Love it or hate it, the Daily Mail certainly has the ability to get people talking - hopefully they do a bit of thinking as well.

Millhouse

Hugely common practice - the US child can then sponsor the parent later in life to gain 'upwards' residency/citizenship.

Norm_uk

All papers have agendas, political leanings and unique styles. They all get caught lying, spreading propaganda and being downright cheeky - but sometimes they are also correct.

I would rather take each story on it's own merits regardless of the rag - clearly the Mail is sensationalist and reactionary (with boobs to boot!) - but again, they are sometimes right.

I find the combination of reactionary British right wingism and big boobs refreshingly honest and gloriously plebeian sometimes. They at least don't pretend to be morally superior, patronising and clever like the Guardian does - what a bunch of Bourgeois quasi-intellectual effetes who despise the unbridled passion of the great unwashed masses, whether they are actually right or wrong.

On a more serious note are you insinuating some find it hard to integrate into the UK because of what the Mail writes? Are you aware of failed government policies and the fact of Wahhabi money flooding certain communities? Multiculturalism ring a bell? Where all cultures are suddenly equal so no need to integrate - that wasn't a Mail invention. As I recall that was one the gifts the effete crowd gave to Britain in it's post Imperial malaise and guilt.

My goodness I am defending the Mail...I'll get a drink quickly and go back to my Flashman novel

N.

Norm_uk

I'd be more concerned about the long term cultural, ethnic and social implications for Britain than money and houses. Where are they from? Do they integrate into Britain or fuel further Balkanisation in Britain? Call me silly but I don't want my grandchildren to be in a civil war based on race, religion or culture in their ancestral homelands.

N.

Norm_uk

To be fair whose fault is that? Successive governments remove industry, create client voters with welfare and then rubbish any kind of national culture and identity - even the kind that gives people pride and motivation to excel, the kind that fosters community and feeling ashamed to have to even go to the dole office or study something that is so utterly useless as media studies

On the NHS, foreigners aren't the issue. Piss poor management is - no argument there. I still think it's valid to moan about medical tourists though, as it simply adds to the burden doesn't it? Even one is one too many.

N.