Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
#16
Hit 16's
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine
Posts: 13,112
#17
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Having interesting work helps too.
#18
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Hi All
I'm discussing a couple of telco sales positions out in ME with a blue chip company - one in Saudi (Riyadh) and the other in Abu Dhabi.
Coming from the UK with a wife and 2 kids, Saudi will obviously be massively restrictive and insular compared to Abu Dhabi.
Question I have is, should I expect the Saudi package to be better than the UAE package? Both positions are with same company, so is there generally any kind of "hardship" premium factored into Saudi packages compared to UAE? This company uses a % of base for calculating housing, schooling, etc.
Cheers
Mike
I'm discussing a couple of telco sales positions out in ME with a blue chip company - one in Saudi (Riyadh) and the other in Abu Dhabi.
Coming from the UK with a wife and 2 kids, Saudi will obviously be massively restrictive and insular compared to Abu Dhabi.
Question I have is, should I expect the Saudi package to be better than the UAE package? Both positions are with same company, so is there generally any kind of "hardship" premium factored into Saudi packages compared to UAE? This company uses a % of base for calculating housing, schooling, etc.
Cheers
Mike
Back to your initial question. I am today in the same situation you used to be 9 months ago.
I am interested to know your decision on job location (KSA or UAE) and also on your ability to negotiate a salary premium for a BDM position in Telecom operator (10 years experience).
I would appreciate to receive in PM an idea on your salary package.
Thanks for your help,
EW
#19
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Lol I have to go Saudi every week though thankfully only for 2 days at a time and I wouldnt live or work there permanently. The country is a toilet and a bad arabic toilet at a remote gas station at that. I would love to know what makes it the best place besides the cash because I must be missing something
Thank you.
#20
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Of course there are some good people in Saudi and indeed I know some as well, but I have also met a lot of deadbeat lazy *****ers who I would have fired if it wasn't nearly impossible to do so.
The only other place I have seen so many work-shy people is in the UK, but at least there they had the decency to go on benefits instead of pretending to be productive members of society....
The only other place I have seen so many work-shy people is in the UK, but at least there they had the decency to go on benefits instead of pretending to be productive members of society....
#21
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Of course there are some good people in Saudi and indeed I know some as well, but I have also met a lot of deadbeat lazy *****ers who I would have fired if it wasn't nearly impossible to do so.
The only other place I have seen so many work-shy people is in the UK, but at least there they had the decency to go on benefits instead of pretending to be productive members of society....
The only other place I have seen so many work-shy people is in the UK, but at least there they had the decency to go on benefits instead of pretending to be productive members of society....
#22
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
It is a society where male is the ruler, the son is in some cases if the family is rich and Saudi. Otherwise the family have no life of their own. A friend of mine was once visiting a general store on his own Muttawas caught him for being out without his father and as a punishment clean-shaved his Head.
#23
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Actually the people who are fine with this magic kingdom are only Muslims. They too do fell oppressed but bear the suffering for tax-free income and for that they are close to the Holy places. That is why you see less European workers in KSA; except for Dammam, Khobar, and Eastern area. This is also the reason the workk ethics are quite better in Eastern Region as compared to the Riyadh and Jeddah.
#24
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Hi All
I'm discussing a couple of telco sales positions out in ME with a blue chip company - one in Saudi (Riyadh) and the other in Abu Dhabi.
Coming from the UK with a wife and 2 kids, Saudi will obviously be massively restrictive and insular compared to Abu Dhabi.
Question I have is, should I expect the Saudi package to be better than the UAE package? Both positions are with same company, so is there generally any kind of "hardship" premium factored into Saudi packages compared to UAE? This company uses a % of base for calculating housing, schooling, etc.
Cheers
Mike
I'm discussing a couple of telco sales positions out in ME with a blue chip company - one in Saudi (Riyadh) and the other in Abu Dhabi.
Coming from the UK with a wife and 2 kids, Saudi will obviously be massively restrictive and insular compared to Abu Dhabi.
Question I have is, should I expect the Saudi package to be better than the UAE package? Both positions are with same company, so is there generally any kind of "hardship" premium factored into Saudi packages compared to UAE? This company uses a % of base for calculating housing, schooling, etc.
Cheers
Mike
Which company is this by the way?
Anyways here are the pros and cons:
PROS:::KSA:::
1. Usually (not always) you get paid better in KSA.
2. The cost of living (Food, Clothes, Rent etc.) is comparatively lower than UAE.
3. You can save a little more comparatively.
CONS:::KSA:::
1. No great entertainment spots. Like (Cinemas, Exhibitions, Red Carpet events). Simply no place to visit. You can't buckle yourself in the car and ask your wife and kids where to? Because you know there aren't much places. You can experience the entire Riyadh in 30 days.
2. No work ethics. Although Eastern region (Dammam, Khobar, Dhahran is an exception).
3. You feel oppressed and depressed.
4. Your wife can't drive.
5. Your family can't go outside to the malls without you. Probably religious police wouldn't catch them if women are covering their heads. Rather the trouble would be to socialize. The society is a male dominant. They would understand English; only Arabic. And then other women around would be Saudis or other Arabs. They are usually aggressive towards foreign women. They wouldn't give them way, and would try to tease them.
6. Also since the kingdom has banned cutting hands off for stealing; under the pressure of Human rights commision, the crime rates have risen drastically in the last 5 years.
7. Corruption has also risen in the last 5 years.
8. Unlike other countries in the world. Kingdom has been continuously falling in the development graphs.
9. No further learning. Like if you are planning to do a few certified courses to improve your CV, well the news is there are hardly any such institutes in KSA. If there are some they are all full of ARABS, so no ethics and no learning. There are only 2 universities for advanced learning but non-saudis aren't allowed here.
10. Uneducated environment.
11. Schools aren't that good although a couple of British schools exist where the majority students are Britishers.
12. Say a good goodbye to your freedom.
UAE:::PROS:::
1. Your kids can enjoy the city without you.
2. Your wife can drive.
3. Lots of places to visit. Movies, Exhibitions
4. Work ethics are quite better, because less locals are employed in private companies.
5. Lesser crime rate.
6. Lesser corruption.
7. English is widely spoken.
8. A variety of cultures.
9. Comparatively more learning institutes.
10. Educated societies.
11. Freedom.
UAE:::CONS:::
1. Cost of living is a bit higher.
2. You can't save as much as in KSA.
3. You ........ Well I don't have any more.
IMPORTANT :: Note that I am not a Britisher so mine and your preferences could differ. Also mine and your experiences could differ a lot in both countries. Mostly Americans and Europeans are placed in an ethically better environment in both KSA and UAE.
Make sure your company is private. And that you aren't sponsored under any person, you must be sponsored by an organization or comany; but not a PERSON.
And the last but not the least both are ARAB countries. If you are aware of Arabs then better avoid them. So WHY http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon5.gif are you coming to Middle-East anyways. Britain is way better. If you have to pay taxes then you are also paid the pension; one way or another it is the same. My advice stay there otherwise your kids wouldn't feel UK their home.
Good Luck.
#25
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
to some degree you are right about that, on their own saudis are usually friendly enough and polite/respectful people but the group or national dynamic is incredibly opressive and restricted.
i bet those saudis you work with, would complain to you over dinner about how things were in their country but never to another saudi.
i discovered from working there, while everyone has a price to work in unfavourable conditions mine is now so high that no company will probably ever pay to bring me back there.
freedom > money
i bet those saudis you work with, would complain to you over dinner about how things were in their country but never to another saudi.
i discovered from working there, while everyone has a price to work in unfavourable conditions mine is now so high that no company will probably ever pay to bring me back there.
freedom > money
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Which company is this by the way?
Anyways here are the pros and cons:
PROS:::KSA:::
1. Usually (not always) you get paid better in KSA.
2. The cost of living (Food, Clothes, Rent etc.) is comparatively lower than UAE.
3. You can save a little more comparatively.
CONS:::KSA:::
1. No great entertainment spots. Like (Cinemas, Exhibitions, Red Carpet events). Simply no place to visit. You can't buckle yourself in the car and ask your wife and kids where to? Because you know there aren't much places. You can experience the entire Riyadh in 30 days.
2. No work ethics. Although Eastern region (Dammam, Khobar, Dhahran is an exception).
3. You feel oppressed and depressed.
4. Your wife can't drive.
5. Your family can't go outside to the malls without you. Probably religious police wouldn't catch them if women are covering their heads. Rather the trouble would be to socialize. The society is a male dominant. They would understand English; only Arabic. And then other women around would be Saudis or other Arabs. They are usually aggressive towards foreign women. They wouldn't give them way, and would try to tease them.
6. Also since the kingdom has banned cutting hands off for stealing; under the pressure of Human rights commision, the crime rates have risen drastically in the last 5 years.
7. Corruption has also risen in the last 5 years.
8. Unlike other countries in the world. Kingdom has been continuously falling in the development graphs.
9. No further learning. Like if you are planning to do a few certified courses to improve your CV, well the news is there are hardly any such institutes in KSA. If there are some they are all full of ARABS, so no ethics and no learning. There are only 2 universities for advanced learning but non-saudis aren't allowed here.
10. Uneducated environment.
11. Schools aren't that good although a couple of British schools exist where the majority students are Britishers.
12. Say a good goodbye to your freedom.
UAE:::PROS:::
1. Your kids can enjoy the city without you.
2. Your wife can drive.
3. Lots of places to visit. Movies, Exhibitions
4. Work ethics are quite better, because less locals are employed in private companies.
5. Lesser crime rate.
6. Lesser corruption.
7. English is widely spoken.
8. A variety of cultures.
9. Comparatively more learning institutes.
10. Educated societies.
11. Freedom.
UAE:::CONS:::
1. Cost of living is a bit higher.
2. You can't save as much as in KSA.
3. You ........ Well I don't have any more.
IMPORTANT :: Note that I am not a Britisher so mine and your preferences could differ. Also mine and your experiences could differ a lot in both countries. Mostly Americans and Europeans are placed in an ethically better environment in both KSA and UAE.
Make sure your company is private. And that you aren't sponsored under any person, you must be sponsored by an organization or comany; but not a PERSON.
And the last but not the least both are ARAB countries. If you are aware of Arabs then better avoid them. So WHY http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon5.gif are you coming to Middle-East anyways. Britain is way better. If you have to pay taxes then you are also paid the pension; one way or another it is the same. My advice stay there otherwise your kids wouldn't feel UK their home.
Good Luck.
Anyways here are the pros and cons:
PROS:::KSA:::
1. Usually (not always) you get paid better in KSA.
2. The cost of living (Food, Clothes, Rent etc.) is comparatively lower than UAE.
3. You can save a little more comparatively.
CONS:::KSA:::
1. No great entertainment spots. Like (Cinemas, Exhibitions, Red Carpet events). Simply no place to visit. You can't buckle yourself in the car and ask your wife and kids where to? Because you know there aren't much places. You can experience the entire Riyadh in 30 days.
2. No work ethics. Although Eastern region (Dammam, Khobar, Dhahran is an exception).
3. You feel oppressed and depressed.
4. Your wife can't drive.
5. Your family can't go outside to the malls without you. Probably religious police wouldn't catch them if women are covering their heads. Rather the trouble would be to socialize. The society is a male dominant. They would understand English; only Arabic. And then other women around would be Saudis or other Arabs. They are usually aggressive towards foreign women. They wouldn't give them way, and would try to tease them.
6. Also since the kingdom has banned cutting hands off for stealing; under the pressure of Human rights commision, the crime rates have risen drastically in the last 5 years.
7. Corruption has also risen in the last 5 years.
8. Unlike other countries in the world. Kingdom has been continuously falling in the development graphs.
9. No further learning. Like if you are planning to do a few certified courses to improve your CV, well the news is there are hardly any such institutes in KSA. If there are some they are all full of ARABS, so no ethics and no learning. There are only 2 universities for advanced learning but non-saudis aren't allowed here.
10. Uneducated environment.
11. Schools aren't that good although a couple of British schools exist where the majority students are Britishers.
12. Say a good goodbye to your freedom.
UAE:::PROS:::
1. Your kids can enjoy the city without you.
2. Your wife can drive.
3. Lots of places to visit. Movies, Exhibitions
4. Work ethics are quite better, because less locals are employed in private companies.
5. Lesser crime rate.
6. Lesser corruption.
7. English is widely spoken.
8. A variety of cultures.
9. Comparatively more learning institutes.
10. Educated societies.
11. Freedom.
UAE:::CONS:::
1. Cost of living is a bit higher.
2. You can't save as much as in KSA.
3. You ........ Well I don't have any more.
IMPORTANT :: Note that I am not a Britisher so mine and your preferences could differ. Also mine and your experiences could differ a lot in both countries. Mostly Americans and Europeans are placed in an ethically better environment in both KSA and UAE.
Make sure your company is private. And that you aren't sponsored under any person, you must be sponsored by an organization or comany; but not a PERSON.
And the last but not the least both are ARAB countries. If you are aware of Arabs then better avoid them. So WHY http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon5.gif are you coming to Middle-East anyways. Britain is way better. If you have to pay taxes then you are also paid the pension; one way or another it is the same. My advice stay there otherwise your kids wouldn't feel UK their home.
Good Luck.
And you don't like Saudi "work ethics"? I wish every nation in this region had the professionalism and integrity of the Saudis......
#27
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
You probably drive to or are driven to work and then you return to the compound. If that's the case then you haven't seen the real thing.
This debate could go just as long as debate on the existence of Aliens.
But the fact is that your own luck matters as well. Varies from person to person. Some people have had great experiences others haven't.
And PLEASE take that wish back.
And in what terms is Britain not better, if you can elaborate. That place seems best to me. But yet I am not as well aware as you.
Last edited by HenryGale; Jul 8th 2011 at 7:02 pm.
#28
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
5. Your family can't go outside to the malls without you. ... And then other women around would be Saudis or other Arabs. They are usually aggressive towards foreign women. They wouldn't give them way, and would try to tease them.
6. Also since the kingdom has banned cutting hands off for stealing; under the pressure of Human rights commision, the crime rates have risen drastically in the last 5 years.
9. No further learning. Like if you are planning to do a few certified courses to improve your CV...
12. Say a good goodbye to your freedom.
#29
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Riyadh
Posts: 84
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Did you visit Madain Saleh? Edge of the World, Wahba Crater...? Buy the book "Desert Tracks from Riyadh" and you will have "where to" for every weekend.
Never happened anything similar in any Jeddah mall or soak.
We feel much safer walking after sunset in Jeddah than in any western city.
You can learn here a lot if you want. If you want only to improve your CV then maybe not the best place.
WTF... it is your FREE decision to come and stay here. Doesn't it?
Never happened anything similar in any Jeddah mall or soak.
We feel much safer walking after sunset in Jeddah than in any western city.
You can learn here a lot if you want. If you want only to improve your CV then maybe not the best place.
WTF... it is your FREE decision to come and stay here. Doesn't it?
Instead of focussing on all the stuff you can't do in Saudi why not try and seek out some of the things you can do...there's plenty to do if you bother going looking for it.
If you really don't like KSA or Saudi's then go somewhere else.
#30
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 29
Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
Did you visit Madain Saleh? Edge of the World, Wahba Crater...? Buy the book "Desert Tracks from Riyadh" and you will have "where to" for every weekend.
Never happened anything similar in any Jeddah mall or soak.
We feel much safer walking after sunset in Jeddah than in any western city.
You can learn here a lot if you want. If you want only to improve your CV then maybe not the best place.
WTF... it is your FREE decision to come and stay here. Doesn't it?
Never happened anything similar in any Jeddah mall or soak.
We feel much safer walking after sunset in Jeddah than in any western city.
You can learn here a lot if you want. If you want only to improve your CV then maybe not the best place.
WTF... it is your FREE decision to come and stay here. Doesn't it?
1. Since the thread is about comparing UAE and KSA, still KSA hasn't got much. Secondly Jeddah indeed is a little more modern than the capital. There definitely are such places in Riyadh as well but not every one can afford them.
2. Jeddah and Dammam specially have more amount of expatriates so this never happened to you. Secondly a lot of ethnic Indonesians who became Saudis reside there. The main purpose of the city of Jeddah is to serve the pilgrims. And the residents of Jeddah and the Western province aren't that much of Saudis ethnically; remember this area was under ottoman control?
Women in Jeddah are the most empowered in the entire Kingdom. And also the most educated. There were also some protests there by them. And 2nd last but not least Europeans enjoy a little better of an experience. And now the last that do keep in mind that we are comparing KSA and UAE.
3. Again Jeddah a bit different. But know that every thing about a country starts developing in the capital and gradually spreads. Compound life is different you are not worried when you are asleep. Ask those who live outside, they can't even buy a new car because it definitely will get stolen. Also the thieves prefer looting the foreigners over the locals.
4. If it is really true please inform me how. A student can't get a summer internship here unless he is Saudi national. He can't get a part-time job like at McDonald's. There is a board hanging out of the restaurant near my house that specifically mentions ONLY FOR LOCALS. Your son can't get admission at the national university like King Saud University. There are some privates which are extremely expensive and nothing like study happens around there. American faculties even avoid coming here. Correct that there are some computer learning centers but only for computer and just basic courses. Some companies do call for instructors from abroad specially Germany but the foreigners are not offered those certified courses instead they would offer the same to someone who is not even concerned. And they usually don't even attend the course. If they have to they keep making disturbance one way or another. And by the way you need a CV to move on and to display your qualification. You can't go to BMW and ask them to employ you for that you have read engineering books, but have not even done the advanced levels.
5. Again I am just giving a comparison. It is his choice to come or not, just telling him to be ready for it. And for your information if the expatriates quit coming here the won't even know what to do with the black sticky liquid that keeps coming from the underneath. Face it we all come here for tax-free income. And forget about the foreigners even the locals are not that FREE in some situations. And the freedom I am talking about is not the Beach freedom if that's where you are deflected, I am talking about the freedom to live. Foreigners here are deprived of a lot of acts every other country allows the expatriates. Dubai isn't any better in fact none of the GCC. But COMPARATIVELY better. Again I mentioned below in the previous quote if you can find any other place than GULF then prefer that. Still if the pay is good enough come but don't stay for too long.
No offense but if you have experienced something good not really will everyone else and vice versa.