Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Hi All

I'm discussing a couple of telco sales positions out in ME with a blue chip company - one in Saudi (Riyadh) and the other in Abu Dhabi.

Coming from the UK with a wife and 2 kids, Saudi will obviously be massively restrictive and insular compared to Abu Dhabi.

Question I have is, should I expect the Saudi package to be better than the UAE package? Both positions are with same company, so is there generally any kind of "hardship" premium factored into Saudi packages compared to UAE? This company uses a % of base for calculating housing, schooling, etc.

Cheers
Mike

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Saudi packages are generally better than UAE ones. Have you been to Saudi? I have, and I wouldn't live in Saudi without at least a 50% premium on my UAE package--even then I'd be reluctant. But some people are OK with the magic kingdom.

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Thanks for the reply Bahtatboy. I'll be in both countries over next couple weeks for 'look & see' trip. Any final decision will be based on 3 criteria (package, position & location). All things being equal it seems like a case of Saudi restricted lifestyle = big savings or Abu Dhabi social lifestyle = not so big savings :lol:

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

I haven't been to Saudi but I would have thought AD would be better with kids?

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Good luck:D

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

True, but the premium is a lot lower than, say, ten years ago.

Saudi is fine. I cannot understand those who say "I'd never go to Saudi in a million years" as work-wise it's one of the best places around here, and lack-of-freedom-wise it's more relaxed than it's ever been.

If you do make the move to Saudi, make absolutely sure your company has sorted out your accommodation BEFORE you arrive. Do not assume you can stay in a hotel for a few days, then find somewhere to live - you won't.

In Abu Dhabi (as I understand it), the schools are harder to get your kids into, but accommodation there is less difficult to find than in Saudi.

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Cheers, if we go Saudi then will be hotel/managed aprtment for 3 months or so until residency and place on western compound found (preferably Al Hamra) - then the family would come out.

If Abu Dhabi then don't have worries about family coming out "cold"; them coming to Saudi without seeing it 1st is still an alien concept :huh:

As waiting lists for villa at Al Hamra, Arizona, Kingdom, etc. seems to be forever, I want to add a clause to contract that gives me some upside if it takes the company any longer to sort out accomodation. e.g. Payment of X increasing to Y for every month >2 it takes to get in villa.

Ideal scenario would be to secure compound 1st, but the company has some urgency on the positions that works in my favour..

Mike

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

I don't think the 50% premium is realistic for most people anymore. Working in Saudi isn't that bad to be honest, but then I work in Eastern Region and have the pleasure of living in Bahrain. Riyadh or Jeddah are out of the question for me, unless they paid me at least twice what I get now. My wife would refuse to live in Saudi, so I would have to pay for my family to live somewhere else which would seriously cut into the opportunity for saving.

Oh and there is nothing magic about it. They are far far behind UAE in terms of work ethics and so on which can make it ridiculously challenging. Not to mention the all male work environment most of us have to endure. I need at least a 4 day holiday once a month to reset my sanity.

Knowing what I do now after spending about 18 months in the Kingdom, I'm not sure I would take another job here. At least not immediately, if I went somewhere else for a few years then I might be more open to it though..

You need to visit with your wife and have a look around. And take all the "it's so wonderful here" stories you get with a pinch of salt, especially if they are coming from your prospective colleagues. Like Dean says plenty of people enjoy it, but it isn't exactly a walk in the park and you definitely need to go into it with both eyes open and ready for anything.

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Everything is always urgent here, but it still usually takes at least 6 months to get someone onboard. My position was very urgent (I was told in my first phone interview that I should have started 2 months ago according to their plan) and still we spent 8 weeks negotiating small things on the contract.

It's certainly true that Arabs love to haggle about everything. :thumbsup:

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Lol I have to go Saudi every week though thankfully only for 2 days at a time and I wouldnt live or work there permanently. The country is a toilet and a bad arabic toilet at a remote gas station at that. I would love to know what makes it the best place besides the cash because I must be missing something

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

You are indeed............

Saudis - in my line of work - are far more professional (and respectful of Western skills and experience) than anyone else in this region, and that includes the otherwise charming Bahrainis.

Also - I think there's an unspoken recognition among them that you are sacrificing a great deal of personal freedoms to live and work there, and any attempt to ingrain yourself into the culture is fully appreciated.

I have several times been invited to join the families of Saudi colleagues at their homes for Friday lunch, and have always enjoyed the experience (I would of course never decline). Not many Westerners are granted that kind of honour, I suspect......

........ so maybe it's just me that's the good guy, and they respond to it?

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

to some degree you are right about that, on their own saudis are usually friendly enough and polite/respectful people but the group or national dynamic is incredibly opressive and restricted.
i bet those saudis you work with, would complain to you over dinner about how things were in their country but never to another saudi.
i discovered from working there, while everyone has a price to work in unfavourable conditions mine is now so high that no company will probably ever pay to bring me back there.
freedom > money :thumbup:

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

Of course there are some good people in Saudi and indeed I know some as well, but I have also met a lot of deadbeat lazy *****ers who I would have fired if it wasn't nearly impossible to do so.

The only other place I have seen so many work-shy people is in the UK, but at least there they had the decency to go on benefits instead of pretending to be productive members of society....:p

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

But that's more-or-less true (at least in some parallel way) of virtually every nationality. Most people are ok one-to-one, but gather together a hundred or more of most nationalities and they turn unpleasant.

(Probably not true of the Japanese, but for them all you have to do is put them behind a steering wheel, or even worse dress them in a Taxi driver's uniform.)

Re: Saudi "Hardship" Premium vs UAE Salary?
 

well maybe in a mob scenario but I mean even in a shopping centre it feels like someone is always watching or you feel restricted. day to day life just is oppressive.