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Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Old Nov 9th 2020, 2:15 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson View Post
You called that.

From an initial verbal offer of 45k, to now offering 36k based on qualification. Same terms apply with accomodation, health insurance, etc.

Not sure that offer (about 25% increase on my current UK pay) is worth it? 45k is about a 60% increase. Over a 3 year duration it's a (UK) years salary of a difference between the numbers.

How easy would it be to negotiate back to the original figure, and any advice on how best to go about it? Left the conversation at the thinking stage.
If 45k was a good number that you were pleased with then just go back with that.

If 42k works, go back with that.

Work out what the numbers is and go back with it......but, be very, very prepared to walk away and say thanks but no thanks.
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 2:50 am
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

"If I'm still sufficiently qualified to be offered the job ahead of all other candidates, then I'm still sufficiently qualified to get the offer we verbally agreed on. Otherwise, you are insinuating that you're willing to sacrifice quality for lower cost and if that is going to be the culture in the company, I may need to re-consider my candidacy."
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 9:57 am
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by Gavtek View Post
"If I'm still sufficiently qualified to be offered the job ahead of all other candidates, then I'm still sufficiently qualified to get the offer we verbally agreed on. Otherwise, you are insinuating that you're willing to sacrifice quality for lower cost and if that is going to be the culture in the company, I may need to re-consider my candidacy."
Very well said.
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 11:20 am
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by Gavtek View Post
"If I'm still sufficiently qualified to be offered the job ahead of all other candidates, then I'm still sufficiently qualified to get the offer we verbally agreed on. Otherwise, you are insinuating that you're willing to sacrifice quality for lower cost and if that is going to be the culture in the company, I may need to re-consider my candidacy."
Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
Very well said.
Agreed, but we're still thinking in a logical manner.

They'll be thinking - you're not qualified so we shouldn't pay you the money of a qualified person when we can pay you less and get you to do the same job.
Still screams the wrong culture, but they won't be thinking much beyond that I wouldn't have thought.
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 3:38 pm
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Was in conversation with an aquaintence out there, admittedly a completely different industry.

With provided accomodation in Ruwais (said you cannot rent houses there as the oil company owns them?) He said, for a low ball number I should be multiplying my current salary by 6 and adding 20%. Mid range add 30% and anything more than 40% is good.

Without provided accomodation, the low ball number should be starting at adding 50-60%

Would his assertion be fair?

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Old Nov 11th 2020, 6:14 am
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson View Post
Was in conversation with an aquaintence out there, admittedly a completely different industry.

With provided accomodation in Ruwais (said you cannot rent houses there as the oil company owns them?) He said, for a low ball number I should be multiplying my current salary by 6 and adding 20%. Mid range add 30% and anything more than 40% is good.

Without provided accomodation, the low ball number should be starting at adding 50-60%

Would his assertion be fair?
I'd probably multiply by 5 for a more recent exchange rate. That just gives your current deal in Dizzers.
Then you have to add on whatever you think it's worth. Some people demand silly numbers, some see the same money but tax free as enough.

If you're on 50,000 in the UK for example, = 250,000dhs or 21,000 a month.
I wouldn't leave the UK for that deal, unless someone sticks the other bits on top - add a housing allowance, flight and car allowance and suddenly you're thinking differently.
Add 30% to the base and you're at 27k. Plus housing, car, flight could probably take it to 36k (4 months extra for house and car).

Forget the add ons and do it at 60% and you get to 33,500 ish.

In reality, your situation is a bit unique because you're going to a shithole. That money in Dubai is fine, it's a nice place to be.

I'd suggest starting at your current, multiplying by 5 and seeing what it works out at when you consider accommodation, transport and other things are provided.
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Old Nov 11th 2020, 9:02 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson View Post
Was in conversation with an aquaintence out there, admittedly a completely different industry.

With provided accomodation in Ruwais (said you cannot rent houses there as the oil company owns them?) He said, for a low ball number I should be multiplying my current salary by 6 and adding 20%. Mid range add 30% and anything more than 40% is good.

Without provided accomodation, the low ball number should be starting at adding 50-60%

Would his assertion be fair?
At first, I thought "this is punchy", then I realised that the x6 was to get it into AED.

About right in my opinion - then there is the basic floor... You want 40k a month.
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Old Nov 11th 2020, 1:57 pm
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I'd probably multiply by 5 for a more recent exchange rate. That just gives your current deal in Dizzers.
Then you have to add on whatever you think it's worth. Some people demand silly numbers, some see the same money but tax free as enough.

If you're on 50,000 in the UK for example, = 250,000dhs or 21,000 a month.
I wouldn't leave the UK for that deal, unless someone sticks the other bits on top - add a housing allowance, flight and car allowance and suddenly you're thinking differently.
Add 30% to the base and you're at 27k. Plus housing, car, flight could probably take it to 36k (4 months extra for house and car).

Forget the add ons and do it at 60% and you get to 33,500 ish.

In reality, your situation is a bit unique because you're going to a shithole. That money in Dubai is fine, it's a nice place to be.

I'd suggest starting at your current, multiplying by 5 and seeing what it works out at when you consider accommodation, transport and other things are provided.
I questioned him about that, as the current exchange rate is about 4.8, so wondered why 6. He said just keep it at 6 as things are more expensive and it acts as a corrective factor. He also said it future proofs yourself as the exchange rate may well go back to where it was once Brexit settles down.

He also says the 45k a month is low for the job location and seniority of the position and I should be looking at least about 55k a month for it.

Housing is a funny one as it isn't going to be a permanent move - 2 to 3 years - I will still need to pay for my housing back in the UK. Is it fair to account for that in salary?

He also mentioned the tax free thing - as this job isn't scheduled to start until June 2021 - I would need to be there until April 2023 before it is actually tax free (contract will only initially be to June 2023). If for any reason the contract is cut short (global pandemic anyone), I will be liable for quite a hefty bill from HMRC should I return home, and unless I've made it worthwhile - could end up going home worse off.

Last edited by HomerSimpson; Nov 11th 2020 at 2:01 pm.
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Old Nov 11th 2020, 2:15 pm
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson View Post
I questioned him about that, as the current exchange rate is about 4.8, so wondered why 6. He said just keep it at 6 as things are more expensive and it acts as a corrective factor. He also said it future proofs yourself as the exchange rate may well go back to where it was once Brexit settles down.

He also says the 45k a month is low for the job location and seniority of the position and I should be looking at least about 55k a month for it.

Housing is a funny one as it isn't going to be a permanent move - 2 to 3 years - I will still need to pay for my housing back in the UK. Is it fair to account for that in salary?

He also mentioned the tax free thing - as this job isn't scheduled to start until June 2021 - I would need to be there until April 2023 before it is actually tax free (contract will only initially be to June 2023). If for any reason the contract is cut short (global pandemic anyone), I will be liable for quite a hefty bill from HMRC should I return home, and unless I've made it worthwhile - could end up going home worse off.
Fair comment. I think it was lower than 6 before Brexit but I'd use 5.5 to be balanced.
I don't know the going rate for Homer Simpsons at all, so I'm useless I'm afraid so can't comment on that.
Housing - tough one this. If I'm you I'd factor in that it's an expense I'll have back home that needs paying and might try to keep it in play, but as an employer I'd wonder why you think I'm going to pay you more to pay your own mortgage off that you already pay now...if that makes sense. I wouldn't 'use' it in any negs. I'd say it's 'fair' for you to think about what you earn now and pay for mortgage, but not 'fair' to say I want 45k + 5k extra as I have a mortgage back home to pay....in summary.
Correct on the tax front, but unless you move on the 5th/6th April you always run that risk. Or you move on the 9th and lie like I did.

You're probably getting to the point that you need to tell them that it's X,000 you're after and be prepared to walk away if it's miles above their bracket.
If it's close, then you need to know what the X-minus-a-bit-but-still-well-worth-it number is so you can settle on that if comfortable and they offer it.
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Old Nov 11th 2020, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Fair comment. I think it was lower than 6 before Brexit but I'd use 5.5 to be balanced.
I don't know the going rate for Homer Simpsons at all, so I'm useless I'm afraid so can't comment on that.
Housing - tough one this. If I'm you I'd factor in that it's an expense I'll have back home that needs paying and might try to keep it in play, but as an employer I'd wonder why you think I'm going to pay you more to pay your own mortgage off that you already pay now...if that makes sense. I wouldn't 'use' it in any negs. I'd say it's 'fair' for you to think about what you earn now and pay for mortgage, but not 'fair' to say I want 45k + 5k extra as I have a mortgage back home to pay....in summary.
Correct on the tax front, but unless you move on the 5th/6th April you always run that risk. Or you move on the 9th and lie like I did.

You're probably getting to the point that you need to tell them that it's X,000 you're after and be prepared to walk away if it's miles above their bracket.
If it's close, then you need to know what the X-minus-a-bit-but-still-well-worth-it number is so you can settle on that if comfortable and they offer it.
Thinking on my site jobs of similar standing that will carry over to the oil industry, which may have more familiarity. People on the same rung as me would be the Senior Maintenance Engineer, Senior Operations Engineer, Senior Electrical Engineer, etc. Guys who will ultimately be responsible for their aspects across multiple projects or even the whole site.
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Old Nov 14th 2020, 1:48 pm
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

Cheers for the advice on this.

They wouldn't budge much. So decided to walk away.

Ultimately, I make about £69k a year in UK, with decent pension included. I have itchy feet but my jobs a known quantity and I am not unhappy.

Unconvinced an offer of 36k a month is worth walking away from that for, and been told from a few people that it isn't that good an offer relative to where the job is located, and my salary in the UK.

Last edited by HomerSimpson; Nov 14th 2020 at 2:11 pm.
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Old Nov 14th 2020, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Potential Job in Ruwais Area

They will end up recruiting staff from India or Eastern Europe.
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