Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Hi to all, this will be my maiden post!

I've done loads of reading on here the last few days about salaries (read some fantastic advice to many job hunters) and have just received an offer, which I am contemplating so I thought it time to post...

The job is as an IT Project Manager with line management accountabilities, based in Dubai.

I have a family of two young children and a wife who will be coming with me.

Primarily, we are coming for the opportunities this role provides which is a step up for me in terms of scope and salary (even before tax in UK), and secondary to that is actually saving money.

We want to enjoy a good quality of life but we are not extravagant. However, I am aware that temperatures for 4-5 months of the year are unpleasant for children to play outside and I am determined that my kids do not suffer for my ambition and are not permanently stuck in the apartment outside school hours for lack of money.

My wife will work however I do not want to rely upon her income and based on advertised salaries I guess that she could earn maybe AED12-14k/pm tops, but I am only banking on 10k. If I accepted the offer we would start looking for her job at that point.

The offer is 30k/pm all in – that figure includes the allowance for schooling and accommodation. The usual UAE benefits apply including healthcare and flights home for all once per year, and there is a non-guaranteed annual bonus of about 20% (which I do not want to rely upon). It seems perhaps a lowball salary to me on the merits of the role alone – and definitely a challenge with a school-age family. As my wife would work, we would also have to pay for transport to/from school and possibly some additional childcare until my wife got home. I would be away a lot so could not be relied upon to support with childcare at all – so my wife would probably appreciate a maid to lift the cleaning/washing etc burden.

So,
Is 30k a good salary for a Brit as a mid-level IT project manager in Dubai?
Is 30k + 10k enough to have a good life as above and save a bit?

Am I in denial to even consider this offer? OR am I actually setting expectations too high in the current climate?

Sorry for the length but wanted to give some information to help with any advice anyone is able to give? Many thanks indeed in advance for any views on the above!

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Welcome to the bored.

So you're looking at 360,000 per year.

Take a look at the expenses, you'll need 100k/year minimum for an apartment, the same again for 2 x school fees in one of the Gems schools (for example) - if you can get them in of course. Then a car/petrol/insurance will set you back a further 24k, internet will add 6k, food will be 36,000 (minimum).

So that leaves just under 100k, sounds a lot - around £14,000 or £1,200/month. That's with no going out or little luxuries.

It's doable, but tight.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Many thanks Kix for your trouble.

I've used a couple of spreadsheets available on expat forums to calculate expenses , that's what I see too. Spreadsheets are great but can only tell me so much and it's the 'feel' from the expats like yourself as to what it's really like in the day to day or hidden costs that I'm after the most - so thanks.

You say 100k min for an apartment, I've seen ones that look pretty good at the Jumeirah Lake Towers for only 70-80k, am I missing something? Is this not a good location?

Thanks again.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

I would add it's tight on the savings side but generally you can have good life with that package. Check your private messages...I have sent you PM.

Just recently accepted similar position...and went trough same calculations etc...

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

JLT had a very spectacular fire in one of the apartment blocks last year. The problem being that many blocks in Dubai are clad in non fire retardant materials.
If you're in an apartment block where are the kids going to play? You mention that you don't want them stuck in but you've not factored in a cost for outside playgroups and transporting there and back.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Thanks desertman - this being my third post I think I will be able to view the PM now!

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

I think you need to have minimum 5 posts before you can send PM...not sure if you can read PM's before you have your 5 posts done...

You can try to use MoneyManagerEX...it's free budget planning/cost tracking tool available for XP,Visa, Windows 7.....

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

ohhh...that doesn't inspire me but appreciate the info..:(

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Thanks for replies so far - does anyone have anything else to add please as I'm now under pressure to accept or decline? Have tried negotiating but not looking good. Think I may have to decline as concerned about costs exceeding income, which is a real shame as the job looks awesome and would really support my career.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Only one person can make the decision. As our American cousins would say it's time to sh1t or get off the pot.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Stay firm with them...schooling costs for 2 kids will "kill" you at the end of the month...+ generally school fees increase each year 2 fold....your kid goes to higher grade which costs more than previous grade + every grade get's more expensive each year....

Companies here don't tend to increase your salary every year so you might end up after 3 years in "minus"....or forced to scale back your expenses and reduce family living standard....

ask them for minimum 35k pm + school fees or 40k without school fees...minimum!

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

What is your current package where you are now?

I'll give you an idea on what I reckon from that.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Very good point. What do you have now? Nice house with massive garden in the suburbs or some squalid flat in the city? The package is tight, so you need to assess what you are leaving behind.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Desertman, Scamp, Millhouse - thank you for your replies.

Excluding aspects of the proposed and my current package that are similar (healthcare, for example), the proposed is 30k AED (circa £5.3k) versus current inc company pension of £3.9k (circa 22k AED). A 36% uplift, and tax free.

I also get a bonus currently of around £6-7k (in addition to the above). Bonus potential in Dubai is £16k. Apparently, they have paid the full bonus to management in the last three years.

The job excites me and has opportunity for advancement. But I am afraid these school fees will, as Desertman says, kill me.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Millhouse - we rent a lovely 3 bed semi with reasonable garden in the London suburbs. We want to save for a house purchase but it's proving difficult here.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Current income of 3.9k I assume is nett?

SO:

3,900 GBP
you then pay to rent, that must be 1,000
you then pay for a car, that maybe is 250
so you have 2650 left to spend on hookers, beer, cocaine and other fun stuff.

In Dubai, your offer = 30,000, @ 5.6 = 5,357 GBP

Let's stay in dizzers though:

30,000 (monthly, all below are rough monthly)
- 12,000 accomm
- 6250 schooling
- 3000 car
- 2000 flights
----------
6,750 remaining = 1205 GBP

You would technically be around 12-1500 GBP worse off.

SO:

What you need to do is work out what you want that figure at the bottom to be for living in Dubai. If you want the same, ask for that, plus about 25,000 AED for living costs. If you want double, ask for that, plus about 25,000 for living costs.

If you ask for the same, 2650 GBP then you will need an offer of 39,840 to achieve it.

If you want to save 1,000 a month for the house deposit then you need an offer of 45,440 AED to do so.

I know nothing about IT, but just be cautious because if it's not a big name firm then they're likely to employ an Indian on a helluva lot less than 30k.

GOod luck pal

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Scamp, yours maths looks spot on. However, the UK figure I quoted is gross. Net is around 2500 (once you include the value of the company pension). I still pay childcare out of that too!
The Dubai living expenses you quote are too rich for our tastes. We plan on a large 2-bed apartment for the first year until we are settled, spending around 7-8k a month not 12k. And 2.5k for a car. Flights are in the package.
Do you think it looks better now?
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Sorry mate but you're going to have to re-read all of this.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Don't forget the good lady, your bit is easy, you're at work and although it's challenging it's still work. She will soon be sick of being stuck in an apartment

Depending on where you live vs school your wife can spend a large part of the day being a taxi. Will you need 1 car or 2 ? If she does get a job who picks and drops the kids and what will she do to earn 10-12k ? It's not that easy.

Entertaining kids is bloody expensive too, football lessons, swimming etc etc all add up

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

InDubnial: These are the things that I, a kid-less wonder, know nothing about so definitely take note of this.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Moving to a flat in the Marina will feel like you are in prision. We moved from house with large garden in London to a flat in AD. While the flat was huge (my son would ride his bike in it) - I've never felt cabin fever like it.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

only staff issues I ever had was with wives being bored - hubby goes off to work and she thinks she's going to sunbathe by the pool all day but it wears off very quickly

no mates and no family to support them they turn into 24/7 child minders and they can end up driving miles to try and keep them amused

* after 10 years my Mrs had the salon / coffee / lunch / exercise routine off to a tee but the first couple of years are tough

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

send them to work. I'm always amused by those that 'refuse to work for that money' then moan they are bored.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Guys, to be clear - my wife will be working full time.

I'm more concerned to ensure that my kids spend plenty of family time with us.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

In a 2 bed appt with 2 kids and working fulltime you'll go mental

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

what about dropping and collecting from school ?

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

most do in the end, the first year is the hardest

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

It's pretty mental now in a 3-bed for the same reasons! :D

Space-wise looking at dubizzle a dubai 2-bed looks to be the same as we have now

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Just get a big one? Exec Towers where I live are huge. My one bed is 50% bigger than the norm

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

2 kids in a 2-bed flat will still cause issues. If the kids are in and out of the garden all of the time at home then they won't appreciate the flat. Also don't underestimate the psychological difference of 'going upstairs' vs. to the 'other room'.

The difference is that in the UK you want to stay inside - it is dark and raining. Here you look out, see sunshine and want to go outside. You can't do that in a flat.

Look at Motor City, large low rise flats, cheap as chips and they have massive balconies and good common areas... or the ground floors of The Greens. Leave the Marina/JBR to Scamps of this world.

What will your wife do? There is no part time work here and it'll take a least a year to find something. Salaries are low too for casual jobs.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Millhouse, why not JBR or Marina for us? What's the difference please?

Also, can anyone recommend JLT, they look pretty good value and well located to me?

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

I understand most schools do transport (for a fee)?

Maybe a maid if schools are close. We probably couldn't afford to provide a car for her though.

Or my wife could drop (though I doubt pick up unless really close to work).

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

My wife would join me after six months with the kids. She would arrange work while in the UK.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Marina / JBR - very high rises, tiny apartments, shitty traffic, no grass or decent play areas nearby and expensive. BUT, shops and bars nearby. The beach is further than you think.

JLT - multiple cheaply built, poorly maintained towers in a dusty wasteland. A one way system to screw your brain. No redeeming features other than price.

Greens - loads of grass, tress and outdoor spaces, pools, decent apartments and a Nandos. Near stuff.

MotorCity - Out the way, no traffic, loads of shops and restaurants in walking distance, open spaces and pools. No one will ever visit you as its miles away from anywhere. You will need two cars to live here.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

who will look after your kids after school finishes (2.30pm) and before you/ your wife gets home (6.30pm)... face it, you're gonna need a maid.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Guys, the offer looks to have fallen through - we couldn't meet in the middle.

Thanks again to everyone for all your advice - it is isn't wasted, as we'd still love to work and live in Dubai for at least a few years, so I will keep an eye out. But financially it just doesn't stack up under the current offer.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

It breaks my heart when a recruiter might have just lost a fee...:rofl:

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Scamp - hunh

you know the worst thing a recruiter said to me to switch me off them?

"but other people in your company have gone to work for XYZ company, and they were happy with the money"

showed me she was desperate - when I had clearly outlined my current salary base & expectations of package based on what current company offers, and said look if company XYZ can't offer that let's not waste each others time....

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

Ah, recruiters. We're a right bunch of ****ing idiots eh.

I can't be bothere trying to get someone to take less / not what they want. I'll tell people we can't get to what they want, even if we thought we could (honestly, thought we could). It's up to them, then.

Re: Job offer in Dubai - advice on salary vs costs please
 

good for you. this "lady" was the most pushy unprofessional recruiter I've ever met.