Adf

Hi all,

After 4 years 8 months since I arrived to join cutest Victoria (4
years 2 months since the AOS application and 2 years 9 months since
AOS approved at CSC) I'm ready to apply for naturalization.

The N-400 is pretty simple (except the calculations required for all
my travles abroad), still a bit confusing where it asks for "criminal"
records. Since I'm obliged to be completely honest, I wonder if
traffic tickets (3, all for speeding!) are counted and if it should
(or shouldn't) be addressed in the application.

Appreciate your suggestions, recommendations, experience.

Thanks,
A.D. & Victoria

Leslie

I'm assuming you are talking about tickets that you've gotten since moving to the U.S., not old ones from your country of origin. If they are the former, not the latter, I believe that you do have to disclose them.

Rete

In answer to your questions regarding completing the N-400, travel abroad can be a pain but it is necessary as your eligibility depends on your being inside of the US for a certain length of time. As for the speeding tickets, yes you must include all traffic tickets you have incurred regardless of whether or not you have taken defensive driving tests to eliminate the points from your license for insurance purposes. You must show them your DMV driving record, a copy of the court papers saying what the infraction was, what you were found guilty of, and the penalty and/or fine levied. I will tell you what the examiner told my husband at the time of his N-400 interview in December, 2003. He was told that all traffic violations are considered "crimes" and having three or more is considered serious and a breach of good moral conduct. It is up to the supervisor to sign off on the charges after the interview.

You can read Jim's interview experience at: http://www.kamya.com/interview/intro.html - under New York State, 12/1/03.

Good luck

Rete

Andy Platt

I'm curious as to why you say just the ones after moving to the US. From
what it says on the form I think it covers abroad too.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination
"Leslie66" <member14032@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I'm assuming you are talking about tickets that you've gotten since
    > moving to the U.S., not old ones from your country of origin. If they
    > are the former, not the latter, I believe that you do have to disclose
    > them.
    > Originally posted by Adf
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > After 4
    > years 8 months since I arrived to join cutest Victoria (4
    > > years 2
    > months since the AOS application and 2 years 9 months since
    > > AOS
    > approved at CSC) I'm ready to apply for naturalization.
    > >
    > > The N-400
    > is pretty simple (except the calculations required for all
    > > my travles
    > abroad), still a bit confusing where it asks for "criminal"
    > > records.
    > Since I'm obliged to be completely honest, I wonder if
    > > traffic tickets
    > (3, all for speeding!) are counted and if it should
    > > (or shouldn't) be
    > addressed in the application.
    > >
    > > Appreciate your suggestions,
    > recommendations, experience.
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > A.D. & Victoria
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Leslie

I defer to your knowledge. I did not have the form in front of me. I knew that U.S. traffic violations had to be disclosed. Obviously, I was unclear on traffic violation in the country of origin.

Leslie

Mrraveltay

Leslie66 wrote:

    > I defer to your knowledge. I did not have the form in front of me.
    > I knew that U.S. traffic violations had to be disclosed. Obviously,
    > I was unclear on traffic violation in the country of origin.
    >

Part 10, Section D of the form doesn't specify US or foreign offenses,
so the answer would be for any location.

Cdnchick

Thats just downright scary about 3 or more violations!! As my father so
eloquently put it at my wedding - I have a birth defect - my right foot is
about 20 lbs heavier than my left foot!!! I've been fortunate enough to
not have had any speeding tickets for a long time - guess I'll have to keep
my nose clean for awhile!!

DeAnna


"Rete" <member167@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> In answer to your questions regarding completing the N-400, travel
> abroad can be a pain but it is necessary as your eligibility depends on
> your being inside of the US for a certain length of time. As for the
> speeding tickets, yes you must include all traffic tickets you have
> incurred regardless of whether or not you have taken defensive driving
> tests to eliminate the points from your license for insurance purposes.
> You must show them your DMV driving record, a copy of the court papers
> saying what the infraction was, what you were found guilty of, and the
> penalty and/or fine levied. I will tell you what the examiner told my
> husband at the time of his N-400 interview in December, 2003. He was
> told that all traffic violations are considered "crimes" and having
> three or more is considered serious and a breach of good moral conduct.
> It is up to the supervisor to sign off on the charges after the
> interview.
>
> You can read Jim's interview experience at:
> http://www.kamya.com/interview/intro.html - under New York
> State, 12/1/03.
>
> Good luck
>
> Rete
>
>
> Originally posted by Adf
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > After 4 years 8 months since I arrived to join
> cutest Victoria (4
> > years 2 months since the AOS application and 2
> years 9 months since
> > AOS approved at CSC) I'm ready to apply for
> naturalization.
> >
> > The N-400 is pretty simple (except the calculations
> required for all
> > my travles abroad), still a bit confusing where it
> asks for "criminal"
> > records. Since I'm obliged to be completely
> honest, I wonder if
> > traffic tickets (3, all for speeding!) are counted
> and if it should
> > (or shouldn't) be addressed in the application.
> >
> >
> Appreciate your suggestions, recommendations, experience.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> A.D. & Victoria
>
>
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com

CalgaryAMC

I agree, and unecessarily so. A person would not have a citizenship application denied solely on the grounds of 3 speeding tickets.

Whilst a newcomer to this group, I can't help but get the feeling that half the time people here are just scaring one another with horror stories and what-ifs.

I am absolutely in favour of preparedness, particularly with something this important, but underinformed speculation, one-off experiences and exceptions-to-the-rule carry these forums away. A little information is a dangerous thing indeed.

Andy Platt

"CalgaryAMC" <member18489@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by Cdnchick
    > > Thats just downright
    > scary about 3 or more violations!!
    > >
    > I agree, and
    > unecessarily so. A person would not have a citizenship application
    > denied solely on the grounds of 3 speeding tickets.
    > Whilst a newcomer
    > to this group, I can't help but get the feeling that half the time
    > people here are just scaring one another with horror stories and what-
    > ifs.
There was nothing scary there. Rita related that with three or more
violations it had to go to a supervisor. Sounds pretty standard to me.

Having said that, I tend to agree that if the only issue is speeding
tickets, they are unlikely to deny naturalization and have the appeals
process and, potentially, a court case. There must be plenty of people
naturalized who've had a ton of speeding tickets and if they suddenly start
denying them there would be repurcussions.

    > I am absolutely in favour of preparedness, particularly with
    > something this important, but underinformed speculation, one-off
    > experiences and exceptions-to-the-rule carry these forums away. A little
    > information is a dangerous thing indeed.

Correct. A little information is a dangerous thing. A lot of appropriate
information is not.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

suiram

I just read of someone being fined for jay-walking. It is sort of interesting in the light of N400 application - especially considering that it must be disclosed...
Also, since a parking violation is fined - read/consider "arrest" - need it be disclosed?

Andy Platt

The wording is much broader than that. "Arrested, cited or detained". Cited
would include speeding tickets, fines for jay walking, etc..

Andy.

--
I'm not really here, it's just your warped imagination
"suiram" <member11657@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I just read of someone being fined for jay-walking. It is sort of
    > interesting in the light of N400 application - especially considering
    > that it must be disclosed...
    > Also, since a parking violation is fined -
    > read/consider "arrest" - need it be disclosed?
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rete

Actually it is not underinformed speculation nor is it one-off experiences. You are relatively new to the newsgroup and I'm sure have not read many N-400 experience writeups nor have visited the N-400 experience page. If you have and did, you will see that this has occurred to just about every newsgroup poster who has applied for naturalization. Being one that has never had a speeding ticket and whose last infraction was going through a yellow light (which I won in court), it is disheartening to see so many people post about their speeding, DWI's and other traffic violations.

The USCIS considers these infractions crimes and evidence of lack of good moral conduct. Define good moral conduct for yourself. Is it not adhering to the law. The states have laws pertaining to how a vehicle is to be operated. If you do not follow these laws and are caught then you are given a ticket. Enough points and the state will suspend your license.

I will agree that a little information is a dangerous thing. But no information is even more so.

Rete

Bluegrass Lass

I agree and disagree, Rete. Just how many of these adjudicators are upstanding, moral citizens with no speeding tickets, and have never parked in a wrong space or jaywalked?? Assuming that *most* people do this at least once or twice in their life (if not more), they're going to hold these, IMHO, very minor offenses against a person applying for naturalization?

To me, that is absolutely ridiculous. If the person is a murderer, thief or con-artist, or worse, I can understand being denied, but come on! These are just speeding tickets we're talking about. But, on the other hand, technically it is breaking the law, so I can see why they look at it. People still actually get cited for jaywalking? I've yet to ever meet anyone who's been ticketed for that. Hell, if the cops want to fill a monthly quota for jaywalking, just head to my university where we cross the street whenever there aren't any cars coming & hardly use the crosswalks. To me, I think I should be able to cross the street wherever I please, so long as there are no cars coming. Sure, it'd be safer to use crosswalks, but I don't people should be forced to use them.

But this is digressing way off topic, so I'll shut up now.

Matthew Udall

Hi Andy,
The language you quote appears in Part 10-D-16 on the N-400 form. If you think "that" is broad language, look at Part 10-D-15 where it requires one to indicate whether one has committed any crime or offense for which one was NOT (their capitalization, not mine) arrested.

Matthew Udall

The adjudicator is not the one applying for the greatest gift the U.S. government can bestow upon someone. I understand the whole concept of, “let those without sin cast the first stone�, however this is a different context than when those words were spoken long ago.

Sure. I’ll bet people sometimes get cited for spitting on the sidewalk too if that is a crime in the place it occurred. Heck, I once was pulled over and received a ticket (while in San Francisco) for riding my unicycle on the sidewalk. I was guilty, so I paid the fine without trying to fight it. For safety reasons, I still ride my unicycle on the sidewalk (don’t want to get hit by an auto) so I guess it’s a good thing I don’t ever have to apply for naturalization!