rtwhtever

Hi,

Can an F-1 PhD student get a 12 month full-time OPT after finishing all
course work but before finishing and defending thesis? If yes, does
he/she have to be enrolled for a certain amount of credits during the
OPT? I'm trying to read the regulations and cannot find the answer to
the above. Unlike the laws of physics immigration laws seem way too
complicated for an enginnering guy :-)

Thanks,
RT

Vc

Hi RT,

Yes. It is possible to apply for a 12 month full-time OPT. I am in the
same situation you described (all requirements completed except for
disseratation ) and I recently got my OPT application approved. The
best person to talk to about this would be your International Student
Advisor at your school.

About enrollment, I believe all the normal F-1 enrollment rules apply.
Check with your international student advisor about this.

-VJ.

rtwhtever

VJ, thanks for the reply! I guess I did not make it quite clear. Here's
the situation: the subject finishes his coursework but not the thesis
part; applies and gets an authorization for 12 months OPT; receives an
offer for a 12 month continuous employment. Can he accept it, stop
school and work for 12 months on the OPT and after that go back to
school and continue/finish with the thesis? Since he will not be
registered for classes at school during the OPT and has still not
finished the whole study (thesis not completed) will he be in good
status? Or does he have to be registered for a certain ammount of
credits to maintain status? It seems to me that the regulations only
talk about full-time work during vacations prior to graduation and the
12-month can be used in one continuous chunk only after graduation. Is
this true? The ISS advisors seem to give inconsistent answers to the
above, which makes it even more frustrating.

Thanks,
RT

Vc

I checked my OPT instruction booklet and it states that for
pre-completion OPT (which is what the subject is applying for), he/she
must be enrolled in a full course of study (unless it is summer or a
vacation period). For this situtation, the student must be enrolled
(possibly dissertation hours ?) full-time. This is what I am doing
also. I will stay enrolled full-time and work on finishing my
dissertation while working at my job full-time. As far as I know,
stopping school (failing to enroll) is not an option, and this will put
the student out ot status.

Just my 2 cents. Please check with your ISA or other sources before you
decide anything.

-VJ.

LucyMO

I am a MS student, and I just finished my 12 months of pre-completion OPT - I didn't have to register full-time for it. Actually, if you are on OPT you can only register part-time. For my CPT, however, I had to be registered full-time.

"An F-1 student who is eligible to apply for OPT must have been in lawful F-1 status for one full academic year prior to applying for OPT. This includes having a valid I-20, passport (which will not expire for at least one year after you apply for OPT), full-time enrollment, etc. "

IT says MUST HAVE BEEN in status, not MUST BE ENROLLED.

"When can I use my OPT? Eligible F-1 students may engage in optional practical training for a total of 12 months:

After completion of a course of study (Undergraduate and Graduate students)
After completion of all course requirements if engaged in thesis or dissertation research (Graduate students only)

Does OPT employment need to be full-time? If you have completed your studies, OPT employment must be full time.

Can I take classes during my OPT? Perhaps. If you have graduated and have OPT, regulations allow you to take classes informally, as long as you maintain your OPT employment. However, if you begin a new course of study, this will automatically cancel your OPT authorization. Also, ISSS does not recommend taking a class that may later be used to satisfy new degree program requirements."

http://international.missouri.edu/isss/students-f1/opt/

rtwhtever

Thanks a lot, this is very helpful! It seems that the OPT case you had
is exactly what I'm interested in: 12 months continuous OPT,
pre-completion, no class registration. As you point out the first
paragraph you cite from UM,s ISS FAQs seems to indicate that the above
would be legal. However, I could not find a similar text in the
government regulations.

Anyone know how the SEVIS system works? If a student with the agreement
of his ISS office starts a 12 month OPT with no (or part-time) class
registration can SEVIS come back afterwards and state that this is not
legal? If the student has signed a contract based on ISS issued I-20
explicitly stating eligibility of 12-month continuous OPT and later
SEVIS states that this is not legal then the student can get sued by
his OPT employer it he has to quit prior to the 12-month period.

Thanks,
RT

Vc

Hi,

You might want to double check the enrollment requirements for
pre-completion OPT. The following document (from KU) states that
students must be enrolled full-time during the OPT period (see under
"When to Apply").

http://www.ku.edu/~issfacts/PDF/immi...structions.pdf

-VJ.

rtwhtever

Thanks, VJ!

Here's the text from KU that you refer to:
********************
When To Apply
....
3) After the completion of all course requirements for the degree, but
before completion of the thesis, dissertation or equivalent - may be
either full time or part time.
4) After completion of the degree - may be only full time.
(Note: Students in situation #2 or #3 must still continue to be
enrolled in a full course of study while on OPT.)
******************
Now, what does "enrolled in a full course of study" mean. If it's full
time then you won't have enough time for both thesis and job (unless
they partially or fully coincide). Furthermore, you would probably lose
your tuition scholarship and would have to spend most of your OPT
salary on tuition. If one credit is enough then it seems fine.

RT

Vc

RT,

According to my ISA, full-course of study means full-time enrollment.
Yes, I understand your situation about paying tuition. I am still yet
to resolve that issue in my case (I have a scholarship that pays my
tuition, and I am not sure how things will work out in my case). But,
in any situation, you must be enrolled full-time. There are no
exceptions to that rule as far as I know (you may be out of status
otherwise). Worse yet, you may have to pay out-of-state tuition (as you
are an international student). On the other hand, if you are paid very
well in your OPT, you may be you able to afford paying your tuition
from your salary.

Think about all these issues, talk to your ISA, and then make an
informed decision.

-VJ.

Ingo Pakleppa

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[email protected] wrote:

    > Anyone know how the SEVIS system works? If a student with the agreement
    > of his ISS office starts a 12 month OPT with no (or part-time) class
    > registration can SEVIS come back afterwards and state that this is not
    > legal? If the student has signed a contract based on ISS issued I-20
    > explicitly stating eligibility of 12-month continuous OPT and later
    > SEVIS states that this is not legal then the student can get sued by
    > his OPT employer it he has to quit prior to the 12-month period.

I don't think he could get sued. Well, you can get sued for anything even if
there is no legal basis for it. But the suit would get tossed out, because
the *employer* is actually required to terminate the employee anyway. Such
a contract that can't be fulfilled by either side would be considered
legally void.

The only reason an employer could validly sue is for misrepresentation. But
that, too, is a difficult case to make because the employer is not allowed
to ask about the duration of the work authorization during the interview
process. The only permissible question would be "do you have work
authorization?" and "do you need sponsorship?" As long as the student had
reason to believe that he would have an EAD when starting work, he's pretty
much off the hook.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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rtwhtever

Thanks a lot Ingo, that's a relief.

VJ, look at this form (Reduced Course Load Request Form) from Purdue
(it is also available from other ISS offices):
http://www.iss.purdue.edu/Resources/...on/RCLForm.pdf
It says:
"Students who engage in full-time Curricular Practical Training (CPT),
full-time optional practical training (OPT) or academic training (AT)
are not required to be registered full-time and do not need to complete
this form."

This seems to totally contradict the KU statement you refered to
earlier. I'm totaly confused, must be missing something. It seems to me
that it pretty much depends on how the local ISS office reads the law.
Well,...

RT

LucyMO

My INternational Center held information sessions on OPT and they specifically told us that we may not enroll full-time during full-time OPT. That's all I got.

I didn't not register for classes, since my international advisor told me I didn't have to. He extended my I-20 by a year for the OPT period.

HEre you go:

§ 214.2 Special requirements for admission, extension, and maintenance of status.

"(3) After completion of the course of study, or, for a student in a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree program, after completion of all course requirements for the degree (excluding thesis or equivalent). Continued enrollment, for the school's administrative purposes, after all requirements for the degree have been met does not preclude eligibility for optional practical training. However, optional practical training must be requested prior to the completion of all course requirements for the degree or prior to the completion of the course of study. A student must complete all practical training within a 14-month period following the completion of study."

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.2.18.0.1.2

So, it looks like you don't have to enroll after you satisfied all requirements, but if you choose to enroll for administrative purposes, it shouldn't preclude you from getting OPT.

Vc

I kind of agree with you regarding the confusion. In my case, I have to
enroll anyway so that I can finish my thesis/dissertation in time.
Here is what the NYU website says about pre-completion OPT:

"While engaged in pre-Completion OPT, you must remain a full-time
student completing coursework or your remaining thesis / dissertation
requirements. You are not permitted to drop to part-time study or
interrupt study while engaged in pre-completion OPT."

To be on the safer side, I would suggest full-time enrollment. I wish
there was some consistency about how the individual ISS offices
interpret the enrollment requirements.

LucyMO: The text essentially says that continued enrollment after all
the degree requirements have been completed does not preclude OPT. But,
it does not say anything about the enrollment requirements while on
pre-completion OPT.

-VJ.