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What do you remember about CSEs from school?

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What do you remember about CSEs from school?

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Old Feb 3rd 2015 | 2:52 pm
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Souvy
I was in the first year of the comprehensive system. The school I went to had been a secondary modern before it was combined with the former grammar school on the same campus, to create a "comprehensive" school.

Comprehensive my arse. We were streamed the same way as we would have been under the old system. The pupils on the CSE path were regarded as knuckle-draggers, including by the teachers.
Ditto. I moved from an old grammar into a brand new comprehensive school. We were in the top two classes...taught by the same grammar school teaches as we had before. The children from the secondary schools went into the other classes...taught by their old teachers.

Most of the grammar school children went into 6th form...most of the others left school at 16.
 
Old Feb 3rd 2015 | 2:57 pm
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by MarkG
Two Es was just to qualify for a grant. My offer from Oxford, like a couple of my friends', was unconditional, though I already had two A-levels when I applied, so it was kind of pointless .
Did you take up the offer?
 
Old Feb 3rd 2015 | 2:59 pm
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Oink
The CSE was introduced in 1965 and like many post–war educ. policies it was designed to soak up and deflect the growing working class demand for higher education. Higher education was at the time, a severely rationed commodity so the CSE gave pupils and their parents the style and impression of o-level and a-level qualifications without leading a pathway towards HE participation. One of Thatcher’s main goals was to reform the education system, but it took until ten years into her administration that GSCE’s came into universal operation. Whatever you think about Thatcher, whatever her ideological concerns were, her educational reforms had a marked effect of democratizing education, especially for working class children.
Bull. Her major contribution as Minister of Education was removing the free milk.
 
Old Feb 3rd 2015 | 3:22 pm
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by MarkG
Yeah, the two who got the best A-level results in our school didn't need them, as they already had 2E or lower offers from Oxford and Cambridge .

Though some kids did seem to slack off once they had easy offers in place.
Life is strange: those who achieved the best A level results in my lot were rejected by Oxford/Cambridge .
 
Old Feb 3rd 2015 | 4:20 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Bull. Her major contribution as Minister of Education was removing the free milk.
As a minister maybe but as PM it was a different matter. The milk is a red herring, there are far better ways to get good nutrition into a child's diet. Plus the classrooms had all kinds harmful bacteria on the desks, floors and big stinking cloths because of spillage. Thatcher brought transparency, accountability and increased the level of service and professionalism to state education. Schools before were often demeaning and harmful places, no more than educational dustbins for working class children. State schools often failed these children, children who entered adulthood branded as failures, state institutions that were set up to produce a tiny elite while undermining the potential of large swathes of the population. If it wasn’t for the reforms in the 1980s and 1990s that would still be largely the case. I'm not suggesting Thatcher was a champion of the working class, in fact I find many of her policies despicable and unnecessarily harsh but imo many of the changes in public education produced profound advancements and benefits.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 12:10 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Ditto. I moved from an old grammar into a brand new comprehensive school. We were in the top two classes...taught by the same grammar school teaches as we had before. The children from the secondary schools went into the other classes...taught by their old teachers.

Most of the grammar school children went into 6th form...most of the others left school at 16.
Sounds very familiar.

I went to school in Brighton, on a campus that (then) comprised an infant/primary school (a distinct infant school was built a bit later), a secondary modern and two grammar schools (one per gender).

The change saw the SM become a comprehensive, the girly grammar a girly comprehensive and the male one a sixth form.

Quite a few of my teachers at my comprehensive were straight out of the grammar schools. They did not teach the B-stream!

The schools still exist. I think they have over 6,000 pupils between them. The campus should be a bit crowded but it isn't. It covers 70 acres in a nice part of town and the schools are dotted around the edges. There is an awful lot of green between them. Looking back, I was quite lucky to spend 13 years there.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 12:14 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Souvy
Sounds very familiar.

I went to school in Brighton, on a campus that (then) comprised an infant/primary school (a distinct infant school was built a bit later), a secondary modern and two grammar schools (one per gender).

The change saw the SM become a comprehensive, the girly grammar a girly comprehensive and the male one a sixth form.

Quite a few of my teachers at my comprehensive were straight out of the grammar schools. They did not teach the B-stream!

The schools still exist. I think they have over 6,000 pupils between them. The campus should be a bit crowded but it isn't. It covers 70 acres in a nice part of town and the schools are dotted around the edges. There is an awful lot of green between them. Looking back, I was quite lucky to spend 13 years there.

Sounds nice...my school was surrounded by council estates.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 12:52 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Sounds nice...my school was surrounded by council estates.
One thing that has struck me, on reflection, was that there was an almost total absence of non-white, non-Christian people in the three schools I went to.

If memory serves, there was one teacher from India, two Hindus, a Sikh, an Asian-Ugandan refugee, an African and a kid from Antigua. And one Jew.

That's spread over 13 years.

I wonder if things are different now?
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 12:55 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Oink
The CSE was introduced in 1965 and like many post–war educ. policies it was designed to soak up and deflect the growing working class demand for higher education. Higher education was at the time, a severely rationed commodity so the CSE gave pupils and their parents the style and impression of o-level and a-level qualifications without leading a pathway towards HE participation. One of Thatcher’s main goals was to reform the education system, but it took until ten years into her administration that GSCE’s came into universal operation. Whatever you think about Thatcher, whatever her ideological concerns were, her educational reforms had a marked effect of democratizing education, especially for working class children.
Oink for Thatcher. Yay.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 1:14 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Souvy
One thing that has struck me, on reflection, was that there was an almost total absence of non-white, non-Christian people in the three schools I went to.

If memory serves, there was one teacher from India, two Hindus, a Sikh, an Asian-Ugandan refugee, an African and a kid from Antigua. And one Jew.

That's spread over 13 years.

I wonder if things are different now?
I grew up in Sheffield...which at the time was predominantly white Protestant. I can't remember anyone at the schools I went to being other than that. There were very few Catholics in the area I lived...just as well as we weren't allowed to mix with them. My mum was appalled when I met my husband (his surname gave him away)...please don't tell me he's a Catholic and an Irish Catholic. 30 years later when she was close to death...she finally admitted I had married a good man.

Very different times
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 1:59 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Shirtback
I got chucked out of Cookery (AKA Home Economics) class before the end of the first term, for making the teacher cry
Do tell.....

Originally Posted by Souvy
One thing that has struck me, on reflection, was that there was an almost total absence of non-white, non-Christian people in the three schools I went to.
We had a Greek Cypriot temporarily (1960s) and one black kid who I was good friends with. Except for the part where, in my innocence, I'd call him blackman to get him to chase me in the playground.

I cringe when I think about it now. Sorry Douglas.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 2:29 am
  #42  
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Do tell.....



We had a Greek Cypriot temporarily (1960s) and one black kid who I was good friends with. Except for the part where, in my innocence, I'd call him blackman to get him to chase me in the playground.

I cringe when I think about it now. Sorry Douglas.
Different times. I don't think we saw anything nasty about it in those days. It was just a difference in colour. Even the school thugs didn't pick on the non-white kids. It probably didn't occur to them that they were meant to.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 3:40 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Souvy
One thing that has struck me, on reflection, was that there was an almost total absence of non-white, non-Christian people in the three schools I went to.
My. That's another world. We had the children of wave after wave of failed immigrants; the successful immigrants having moved on. I recall there being West Indians by the busload, one called Everard, Greeks, Turks, Indians, Pakistanis, Spaniards, Portuguese, Poles, binnies of multiple flavours, even a Canadian. Now I understand there to be a wave of Chinese immigrants. When I arrived I thought Toronto a bit monocultural.
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 3:52 am
  #44  
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

Originally Posted by Oink
As a minister maybe but as PM it was a different matter. The milk is a red herring, there are far better ways to get good nutrition into a child's diet. Plus the classrooms had all kinds harmful bacteria on the desks, floors and big stinking cloths because of spillage. Thatcher brought transparency, accountability and increased the level of service and professionalism to state education. Schools before were often demeaning and harmful places, no more than educational dustbins for working class children. State schools often failed these children, children who entered adulthood branded as failures, state institutions that were set up to produce a tiny elite while undermining the potential of large swathes of the population. If it wasn’t for the reforms in the 1980s and 1990s that would still be largely the case. I'm not suggesting Thatcher was a champion of the working class, in fact I find many of her policies despicable and unnecessarily harsh but imo many of the changes in public education produced profound advancements and benefits.
It is still largely the case though isn't it?
 
Old Feb 4th 2015 | 4:01 am
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Default Re: What do you remember about CSEs from school?

My Direct Grant school had about 50% of the pupils from 11 plus passes the rest were fee payers. It had very good results apart from me and many girls went to university which was not so common then. After the reforms it opted to become fully independent removing opportunities for working class kids.

I didn't think much if the 11plus as a selection method though, it failed boys miserably plus at the age of 11 you became an obvious part of the them and us world.
 


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