The CSE was introduced in 1965 and like many post–war educ. policies it was designed to soak up and deflect the growing working class demand for higher education. Higher education was at the time, a severely rationed commodity so the CSE gave pupils and their parents the style and impression of o-level and a-level qualifications without leading a pathway towards HE participation. One of Thatcher’s main goals was to reform the education system, but it took until ten years into her administration that GSCE’s came into universal operation. Whatever you think about Thatcher, whatever her ideological concerns were, her educational reforms had a marked effect of democratizing education, especially for working class children.

Not so in all boroughs. I know of a girl who was given a place at Cambridge and told to forget about A levels and to go travelling.

I have a CSE in typing. Also an Army training certificate in switchboard operation.

I am old.

I'm the same as you in this regard.

Didn't get streamed into the CSE group but didn't pay attention in the O level stream either, so rummaged together 4 O levels at A-C, two A levels in French and Law. I got a U for Maths! That stigma stays with me to this day.

I missed this one.

We were streamed but there was still a mix in some lessons. The overwhelming majority were CSE so there was no looking down on the norm. That was reserved for a much smaller sub group.

The big puzzle for me was that once the standard classes were sorted, there were three other subjects. Latin - for the brainy ones who were in the O level classes; Ancient Civilisation for the next lot and Extra English which is maybe self explanatory.

The puzzle was me being in the Latin one when I was CSE for everything else.

That would make sense, far too long ago for me to actually remember . I always assumed it was Oxbridge thumbing its nose at having to conformed to the standardised Uni entry system (UCCA??).

The joke at the time, amongst my peers, was that the only one of us who got a place at Oxford, didn't qualify for anywhere else !!

Ditto 2 of my classmates. One of whom managed an A in Latin, failed 2/5 of her CSEs, but then went on to a rather illustrious career in the FCO - probably the most successful person of any of my year .

Latin was an odd one.

Our year was split into eight forms (2A1 to 2B4). A1-A3 were the kids who probably would have gone to grammar school. My form (A1) was the only one doing Latin. None of us wanted to but we had to because it meant we could sit English O-level a year early. The annoying bit was that we had to continue Latin after we'd done the English. I don't think many of us got good grades in the Latin O-level. We didn't give a stuff and had better ways to spend our revision time.

I think my Latin grade was Z.

[thread swerve]
'Twas indeed. I can't for the life of me remember why I opted for it (I have a sneaky suspicion the reasoning may have involved bloodymindedness &/or avoiding some other subject where I hated the teacher), however, I ended up loving it .

Enough so that I did it for A level too, where I achieved an ignominious E after sitting the final paper in the afternoon following a funeral & wake where my headmistress & Latin teacher plied me with "just another glass" for luck. I had to be woken up during the exam, several times, by the invigilator...
[/thread swerve].

The only way I could drop Latin after the first year was to replace it with Spanish or German. No way to learn a language, really, when I was already way behind the others in French having started it much later after the school change.

The annoying thing was I caught up in French thanks to one of those strict teachers (who later eases up) who kept you in to do homework you didn't do when you should have, but you did it.
Me and another kid got switched to a higher group but the teacher there was one of those softies with no control and the class just messed around and I went backwards. Got a grade 5 in the end
I reckon I'd have got a grade 3 or better had I not been moved.

I was also in the first year of comprehensive education but the school I went to was the former grammar school. They might have changed the system but they forgot to change the teaching staff who treated the working class kids with obvious distaste.

I am pretty sure that they didn't "do" CSEs at that school. In the competitive world that was grammar school teaching no master wanted failures in their class so anyone who was not expected to pass O levels was sent to the former Secondary Modern to bash metal or saw some wood until it was time to take their CSEs.

We also took Latin. I remember one exam where we had to write an essay. We stared with a mark of 100 they took a mark off for every word we got wrong. When my paper was down to zero they decided to give me a mark for every word I got right. I got 11%. I was allowed to quietly drop Latin.

Yeah, the two who got the best A-level results in our school didn't need them, as they already had 2E or lower offers from Oxford and Cambridge .

Though some kids did seem to slack off once they had easy offers in place.

We had a choice of Latin or German, if you failed Latin in the 2nd year you webpnt into the class that did Cookery. Bring seen with a wicker basket of ingredients meant you were thick.

We weren't streamed at school but the girls who spoke naicely and whose daddies were in the professions were all in one class and they had the best teachers. What a coincidence.

I got chucked out of Cookery (AKA Home Economics) class before the end of the first term, for making the teacher cry . Latin had nothing to do with that

That sounds familiar!!!

We we at the same school

I am wondering ...