Trudeau
Sep 12th 2019, 1:26 pm
#16
Yo
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Trudeau
If you are looking for a contrast, and a leader who really had his finger on the pulse of the nation, read up on Jean Chretien. So uncharismatic that it made him charismatic, and scandals just rolled off his back and didn't touch his popularity. The Conservatives got really nasty early in his leadership and tried to attack his disability. Anyways, Chretien was a good Prime Minister.
Perhaps Trudeau's (Justin) cognate is not his father, but Paul Martin. A Prime Minister adored and respected by the media but who never fully connected with the population, and the media didn't really pick up on that until Martin suddenly found himself in Minority Government and serious political trouble just a year into his leadership. He only lasted a few years.
Perhaps Trudeau's (Justin) cognate is not his father, but Paul Martin. A Prime Minister adored and respected by the media but who never fully connected with the population, and the media didn't really pick up on that until Martin suddenly found himself in Minority Government and serious political trouble just a year into his leadership. He only lasted a few years.
Sep 12th 2019, 1:35 pm
#17
Stand-up Philosopher
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Regina Saskatchewan
Posts: 16,344
Sep 12th 2019, 2:14 pm
#18
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,891
Re: Trudeau
Not a good Prime Minister.
The Foreign Minister you are referring to is Chrystia Freeland, not Christine Freelander. Neophyte who was a newspaper journalist up to just a few years before becoming Foreign Minister. Completely in over her head.
Trudeau is book-smart but has lived a very sheltered life and is not up to the complexities of leading a nation full of people who didn't grow up the same way he did. As such he can be divisive even when he is not intending to be, and he sticks his foot in his mouth often. Not his instinct to really think about how his actions will be seen beyond his peer and social group.
Dad was a good Prime Minister, but that's a long time ago now.
The Foreign Minister you are referring to is Chrystia Freeland, not Christine Freelander. Neophyte who was a newspaper journalist up to just a few years before becoming Foreign Minister. Completely in over her head.
Trudeau is book-smart but has lived a very sheltered life and is not up to the complexities of leading a nation full of people who didn't grow up the same way he did. As such he can be divisive even when he is not intending to be, and he sticks his foot in his mouth often. Not his instinct to really think about how his actions will be seen beyond his peer and social group.
Dad was a good Prime Minister, but that's a long time ago now.
But to dismiss her as a neophyte does her a considerable disservice. She has been around politics since childhood (both her parents were active in politics, in the Liberal and NDP parties respectively). Her undergraduate degree in Russian studies was good enough to secure her a Rhodes Scholarship. While a journalist, she wrote two critically well-received books on Russia's journey from communism to oligarchic capitalism, and on the rise of the "global super-rich." She was appointed to the Foreign Ministry in 2017, by which time she'd been an MP for four years. All of which puts her in a better-educated and better-researched position to take up the foreign affairs department than many others who have come to the job with no relevant knowledge at all.
Your criticism of Trudeau is puerile. He worked as a substitute teacher in Vancouver, hardly a cushy job (a fact that is often used against him, bizarrely, by the same people who claim he's lived a sheltered life). He's been a politician for most of his adult life (for example, volunteering and supporting John Turner's candidacy for the liberal leadership in 1988, when he was still in his teens), and an MP since 2008. This strange characterization of "not up to the task" is very reminiscent of the Conservative attack ads in the last election. It's fanciful nonsense, especially when a man who's been prime minister for almost four years is compared with the current Conservative party leader, who worked for a short time as an insurance broker after graduating, but otherwise has been a "career politician."
Sep 12th 2019, 2:44 pm
#19
Every day's a school day
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Was Calgary back in Edmonton again !!
Posts: 2,667
Re: Trudeau
Freeland has not done very well with China, but that is at least in part (particularly over the Huawei CFO arrest nonsense) because upsetting China is a secondary concern to maintaining stability with the US. I don't think Trudeau has helped here, either: it's an irony not lost on the electorate that while he's been interfering in the domestic judicial process through the SNC Lavalin file, he's been publicly lauding the isolation from political interference of the judicial process through the Meng Wanzhou business.
But to dismiss her as a neophyte does her a considerable disservice. She has been around politics since childhood (both her parents were active in politics, in the Liberal and NDP parties respectively). Her undergraduate degree in Russian studies was good enough to secure her a Rhodes Scholarship. While a journalist, she wrote two critically well-received books on Russia's journey from communism to oligarchic capitalism, and on the rise of the "global super-rich." She was appointed to the Foreign Ministry in 2017, by which time she'd been an MP for four years. All of which puts her in a better-educated and better-researched position to take up the foreign affairs department than many others who have come to the job with no relevant knowledge at all.
Your criticism of Trudeau is puerile. He worked as a substitute teacher in Vancouver, hardly a cushy job (a fact that is often used against him, bizarrely, by the same people who claim he's lived a sheltered life). He's been a politician for most of his adult life (for example, volunteering and supporting John Turner's candidacy for the liberal leadership in 1988, when he was still in his teens), and an MP since 2008. This strange characterization of "not up to the task" is very reminiscent of the Conservative attack ads in the last election. It's fanciful nonsense, especially when a man who's been prime minister for almost four years is compared with the current Conservative party leader, who worked for a short time as an insurance broker after graduating, but otherwise has been a "career politician."
But to dismiss her as a neophyte does her a considerable disservice. She has been around politics since childhood (both her parents were active in politics, in the Liberal and NDP parties respectively). Her undergraduate degree in Russian studies was good enough to secure her a Rhodes Scholarship. While a journalist, she wrote two critically well-received books on Russia's journey from communism to oligarchic capitalism, and on the rise of the "global super-rich." She was appointed to the Foreign Ministry in 2017, by which time she'd been an MP for four years. All of which puts her in a better-educated and better-researched position to take up the foreign affairs department than many others who have come to the job with no relevant knowledge at all.
Your criticism of Trudeau is puerile. He worked as a substitute teacher in Vancouver, hardly a cushy job (a fact that is often used against him, bizarrely, by the same people who claim he's lived a sheltered life). He's been a politician for most of his adult life (for example, volunteering and supporting John Turner's candidacy for the liberal leadership in 1988, when he was still in his teens), and an MP since 2008. This strange characterization of "not up to the task" is very reminiscent of the Conservative attack ads in the last election. It's fanciful nonsense, especially when a man who's been prime minister for almost four years is compared with the current Conservative party leader, who worked for a short time as an insurance broker after graduating, but otherwise has been a "career politician."
Sep 12th 2019, 2:46 pm
#20
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Trudeau
That's a little unfair. Trudeau is actively engaged in policy making, he is a major figure in the Liberal party, so he is at least partially to blame for errors in government, The Conservatives are knowingly running an empty suit, no one expects Scheer to deal with issues.
Sep 12th 2019, 2:46 pm
#21
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,374
Re: Trudeau
Unfortunately for Trudeau, the electorate now have almost 4 years of his actual record of running the country to use to decide whether he is up to the job. That is why he is doing all he can to refer to the "Harper years." I agree, on the basis of the "personality" parade that politics have become, the alternatives don't look great, but there is more there than just the leaders, Freeland being one of them.
Time will tell and the electorate will get exactly what it deserves. Whether the country can, financially, afford another 4 years of a Trudeau majority is debateable. I say, let's have a minority government.
Time will tell and the electorate will get exactly what it deserves. Whether the country can, financially, afford another 4 years of a Trudeau majority is debateable. I say, let's have a minority government.
Sep 12th 2019, 2:49 pm
#22
Yo
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Trudeau
Freeland has not done very well with China, but that is at least in part (particularly over the Huawei CFO arrest nonsense) because upsetting China is a secondary concern to maintaining stability with the US. I don't think Trudeau has helped here, either: it's an irony not lost on the electorate that while he's been interfering in the domestic judicial process through the SNC Lavalin file, he's been publicly lauding the isolation from political interference of the judicial process through the Meng Wanzhou business.
But to dismiss her as a neophyte does her a considerable disservice. She has been around politics since childhood (both her parents were active in politics, in the Liberal and NDP parties respectively). Her undergraduate degree in Russian studies was good enough to secure her a Rhodes Scholarship. While a journalist, she wrote two critically well-received books on Russia's journey from communism to oligarchic capitalism, and on the rise of the "global super-rich." She was appointed to the Foreign Ministry in 2017, by which time she'd been an MP for four years. All of which puts her in a better-educated and better-researched position to take up the foreign affairs department than many others who have come to the job with no relevant knowledge at all.
Your criticism of Trudeau is puerile. He worked as a substitute teacher in Vancouver, hardly a cushy job (a fact that is often used against him, bizarrely, by the same people who claim he's lived a sheltered life). He's been a politician for most of his adult life (for example, volunteering and supporting John Turner's candidacy for the liberal leadership in 1988, when he was still in his teens), and an MP since 2008. This strange characterization of "not up to the task" is very reminiscent of the Conservative attack ads in the last election. It's fanciful nonsense, especially when a man who's been prime minister for almost four years is compared with the current Conservative party leader, who worked for a short time as an insurance broker after graduating, but otherwise has been a "career politician."
But to dismiss her as a neophyte does her a considerable disservice. She has been around politics since childhood (both her parents were active in politics, in the Liberal and NDP parties respectively). Her undergraduate degree in Russian studies was good enough to secure her a Rhodes Scholarship. While a journalist, she wrote two critically well-received books on Russia's journey from communism to oligarchic capitalism, and on the rise of the "global super-rich." She was appointed to the Foreign Ministry in 2017, by which time she'd been an MP for four years. All of which puts her in a better-educated and better-researched position to take up the foreign affairs department than many others who have come to the job with no relevant knowledge at all.
Your criticism of Trudeau is puerile. He worked as a substitute teacher in Vancouver, hardly a cushy job (a fact that is often used against him, bizarrely, by the same people who claim he's lived a sheltered life). He's been a politician for most of his adult life (for example, volunteering and supporting John Turner's candidacy for the liberal leadership in 1988, when he was still in his teens), and an MP since 2008. This strange characterization of "not up to the task" is very reminiscent of the Conservative attack ads in the last election. It's fanciful nonsense, especially when a man who's been prime minister for almost four years is compared with the current Conservative party leader, who worked for a short time as an insurance broker after graduating, but otherwise has been a "career politician."
Sep 12th 2019, 3:24 pm
#24
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,891
Re: Trudeau
Unfortunately for Trudeau, the electorate now have almost 4 years of his actual record of running the country to use to decide whether he is up to the job. That is why he is doing all he can to refer to the "Harper years." I agree, on the basis of the "personality" parade that politics have become, the alternatives don't look great, but there is more there than just the leaders, Freeland being one of them.
Time will tell and the electorate will get exactly what it deserves. Whether the country can, financially, afford another 4 years of a Trudeau majority is debateable. I say, let's have a minority government.
Time will tell and the electorate will get exactly what it deserves. Whether the country can, financially, afford another 4 years of a Trudeau majority is debateable. I say, let's have a minority government.
FWIW I don't think she's handled the Huawei case and its wider implications for China trade relationships very well. But on the USMCA negotiations she's done pretty well; she's been robust on Russia, she's chaperoned the CETA - agreed in principle under Stephen Harper's government - through some troubled waters (thanks, Belgium) to a reasonable likelihood of ratification by EU states, and Canada's had a pretty quiet run in foreign affairs otherwise.
Unless I've misinterpreted your comment and you in fact mean that Freeland bucks the trend of mediocrity that the party leaders present... in which case I apologise
Sep 12th 2019, 7:33 pm
#25
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,374
Re: Trudeau
I take it you don't think much of Freeland, then. Why not?
FWIW I don't think she's handled the Huawei case and its wider implications for China trade relationships very well. But on the USMCA negotiations she's done pretty well; she's been robust on Russia, she's chaperoned the CETA - agreed in principle under Stephen Harper's government - through some troubled waters (thanks, Belgium) to a reasonable likelihood of ratification by EU states, and Canada's had a pretty quiet run in foreign affairs otherwise.
Unless I've misinterpreted your comment and you in fact mean that Freeland bucks the trend of mediocrity that the party leaders present... in which case I apologise
FWIW I don't think she's handled the Huawei case and its wider implications for China trade relationships very well. But on the USMCA negotiations she's done pretty well; she's been robust on Russia, she's chaperoned the CETA - agreed in principle under Stephen Harper's government - through some troubled waters (thanks, Belgium) to a reasonable likelihood of ratification by EU states, and Canada's had a pretty quiet run in foreign affairs otherwise.
Unless I've misinterpreted your comment and you in fact mean that Freeland bucks the trend of mediocrity that the party leaders present... in which case I apologise
She is the only one of his front bench team, (him included) that appears up to the job.
Sep 12th 2019, 8:05 pm
#26
Dive Bar Drunk
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,649
Re: Trudeau
Sep 12th 2019, 8:10 pm
#27
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,891
Re: Trudeau
Apparently yes - he was a sub in the public system, teaching elementary math and high school French and drama, before he got a gig at West Point Grey, the private academy your colleague presumably attended.
Sep 12th 2019, 8:42 pm
#28
Nuther day in paradise.ca
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Ajax, Ontario
Posts: 7,263
Re: Trudeau
Don’t blame him for not attending the upcoming debate, he can only blame everyone else for so long then he will have to start answering actual questions and not use the secret act to avoid questions
Sep 12th 2019, 9:09 pm
#29
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,849
Re: Trudeau
I certainly won't be losing any sleep if he doesn't win with or without a majority. Yes when reading from a script he is a good talker but off the cuff answers to questions not as much. He does have nice hair and wears trendy socks but that's about it.
