Trayvon case
 

Any views? Can't be faffed to read the articles on it but have heard some comments on it being a fair verdict and others on it being unfair...

Re: Trayvon case
 

Just like all of the people calling foul and stoking violence; I don't know enough of the facts to form a realistic opinion.

Trial by media?

Re: Trayvon case
 

That's the issue. No one bothers to ascertain the facts and then decide that it was a travesty. All the legal commentators were adamant he wasn't going to be convicted if the jury considered the law and the evidence appropriately; they did and the Court of public opinion rejected it. Unfortunately lazy or dishonest journalism has much to answer for.

Roll on the next one.

Re: Trayvon case
 

The Trayvon situation is one thing, but the fact that the same rule has been used to imprison a black woman for 20 years, this week, because she fired a gun at the ceiling and fired some warning shots, at her previously proven wife beater of a husband makes me somewhat puzzled. I actually think there is little or no difference between the life of a woman in the US and those who are in third world cultures, other than in the US women have even less respect. :(. I want to scream and shout, this is just sooo wrong. I would post a link, but I am pecking away on this blasted tablet...can one of you post a link for me please?:)

I thank heaven that I am not black on a regular basis. The whole world just gives black people less, they are just more disposable.....this isn't changing, it's getting worse.:thumbdown:

Re: Trayvon case
 

Here you go
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...warning-shots/

My understanding was that Zimmerman did not use the Stand your Ground defence as he would have lost on that. The self defence arguement was used and as there were no real witnesses then there was doubt and so.....

The problem seems to be Florida's laws.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Stand Your Ground is irrelevant when you're on the ground with someone beating your head against it. There's nowhere else you can go.

As for the woman, as I understand it, she went outside, got a gun, came back and shot him. So that eliminated any self-defence claim.

Re: Trayvon case
 

The problem with this is the following:

With Trayvon- People are outraged because he was unarmed and GZ had a gun. Also many are saying if the roles were reversed would he had gotten away with it like GZ did.

As for the woman, She was being abused and fired a warning shot to scare the guy off but she got 20 yrs.

Many are saying how is that justice at all?


There are so many things wrong here I'm not sure where to begin, but racism, sexism, and bigotry jump right out there to the top of the list. And I think it's fair to say, Stand Your Ground laws work for some, but not others...


Which others do you think it won't work for?

Re: Trayvon case
 

Discussed at length here:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=801908

Law. Ass. Etc.

Re: Trayvon case
 

She shot at a wall, to try to get him to leave. Women usually need a weapon to defend themselves effectively especially against an abusive partner , it becomes rather more complicated than your portrayal.

Zimmerman caused the incident that led to Martin's death. He may be innocent in law but he is morally guilty. Stand your ground does not apply when you cause the interaction. I think that was how it was described.

Re: Trayvon case
 

I so agree with this if only he stayed in the car none of this took place

Re: Trayvon case
 

Thanks. Completely missed that thread.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Bats thanks so much for that, who would move to Florida!

Re: Trayvon case
 

Think of several hundred thousand Snowbirds who make Florida, Texas and Arizona their winter homes rather than freezing their asses off in Canada.

Re: Trayvon case
 

As the reporter said, "her bet did not pay off"! In that case it seems the woman was instigating lethal force, nevertheless quite a punishment considering that no harm was done.

Re: Trayvon case
 

I haven't met any black snowbirds, have you? Mind you in this area there aren't many people who aren't white so it's hard for me to judge!

Re: Trayvon case
 

Enrico Salvatore "Ratso" Rizzo

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV..._V1_SX214_.jpg

Re: Trayvon case
 

Yeah but, he never made it. Does that count?:sneaky:

Re: Trayvon case
 

Spoilers! :rofl:

Re: Trayvon case
 

Beyonce and hubby have now added their voice to the dissent about the Trayvon verdict, so perhaps the jury did get it wrong ? ;)

The argument that seems to be getting peddled around is that "this would not have happened if a white boy were killed," rather than focussing on the specific events in the case.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Exactly! It is what it is....To change the verdict IMHO, you would have needed to change the law....:cool:

Re: Trayvon case
 

Let the people of Sanford, Florida tell you differently.. They think nothing is wrong with that law.. People don't understand or don't want to understand what the protest were about

Re: Trayvon case
 

I'm reserving judgement 'till Kanye West and Kim Kardisian come out with their take on it.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Basically it all boils down an guy patrolling the streets with a gun who wasn't law enforcement. You take that gun away from him and he's just someone looking from behind the curtains.

Re: Trayvon case
 

But I really am not so sure that I can bear this....it isn't right, can all of Canada live in a state of ? This is the future isn't it. Just some sort of apethetic dream?

Re: Trayvon case
 

I don't think there are black snowbirds because entrenched racism in Canada means that it's only very recently that any non-white people in Canada have reached retirement age at the level of affluence required to support multiple homes. It may well be that rich black Canadians wouldn't choose to winter in the slave owning States but, really, the number of rich black retired Canadians is such that we could just ask him where he chooses to go.

Re: Trayvon case
 

What rule was that?

Please ensure accuracy.

Re: Trayvon case
 

I suppose that would be the learned approach, yes...

:rofl:

Re: Trayvon case
 

How, DBD, do you get away with saying s**t like that :eek::)

Re: Trayvon case
 

Why did she leave to get the gun and come back and shoot. Could she not have called the police when she went out?

Trayvon used a racial slur referring to Zimmerman. Zimmerman doesn't even mention he's black initially until specifically asked by the police. The photos of Trayvon all show him a little 10 year old rather than muscular 17 year old which creates a somewhat misleading impression.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Zimmerman followed him, got out of his car to do so. Antagonised him. It doesn't matter whether he was frail or muscular, he was targeted by Zimmerman.

Abused women behave differently, look it up.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Covers the start of the sequence of events. Read up on what happened in the other few minutes until the shooting occurred.

Re: Trayvon case
 

And your point is?

Re: Trayvon case
 

There doesn't seem much doubt that the verdict was correct. The only suprise is that it was brought to trial in the first case.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=19598422

Re: Trayvon case
 

I said as much in post 5

Re: Trayvon case
 

Looking at your post you don't seem to have said that at all. You suggested there were no witnesses but that wasn't the case at all. The witness closest to the incident was able to describe the situation at the time of the shot which seems to have confirmed Zimmerman's account.

Re: Trayvon case
 

Following and getting out of the car was irrelevant in the end.

Re: Trayvon case
 

But why call 911, be directed by 911 operator to stay put and yet he gets out of car and follows Trayvon. It does not make sense

Re: Trayvon case
 

According to the ABC news article posted, he got out of the car to write an address down or something of that nature.

I suppose the question is whether Martin was goading Trayvon, and if so, that may be what the black community is objecting to. The fact that they are often "profiled" and seem to have limited recourse (especially where "Stand Your Ground" applies). If Trayvon was verbally provoked into a fight, for example, that would put a different spin on the self-defence defence (not legally, but morally).

Re: Trayvon case
 

There were two conflicting witnesses watching from a distance and neither saw who threw the first punch.
I said there was 'doubt and so....' the ellipsis which was intended to imply that reasonable doubt meant that there had to be a not guilty verdict. Apologies if this is beyond your comprehension.

Re: Trayvon case
 

I agree with you and think that following someone is also goading. The shame is that the black community is often profiled in this way and gets worse sentences when convicted, the understandable assumption is that this is what happened in this case. We don't really know though and it isn't helped by Obama pitching in.

Edit. Have been looking for facts on Zimmerman racially profiling Martin and found this article

://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/opinion/zimmerman-prosecutors-duck-the-race-issue.html?pagewanted=all