I think those days might have gone.

The PC brigades would have a field day.

Or are soccer (football) players exempt?

In the Toon right now, PC means Pulverize Chelsea. Anything less and the Wrath of Big Al will be visited upon the cretinous players under his gentle care.

I was bored with that avatar pic anyway.

He's baaaaack!!!!!!!!

Well, Denis Wise has slung his hook, so Shearers appointment has had at least one immediate positive effect.

I think the Premiership would definitely be a weaker place without the likes of Newcastle in it, so good luck, I hope there is a happy ending. Then again, it seems to be getting by just fine without the likes of Leeds and Forest, stalwarts of the past.

Yeah, funny how the times have changed perceptions there. Forest I remember for quality and flair, Leeds for thuggery. Right now I have no idea where those teams are or how they're doing.

So I'm looking at the Championship table, Forest are in the relegation zone (seems sad in a way) but I don't see Leeds anywhere in that division. I don't really even care where they are... Maybe we're better off without them in the Premiership (and the likes of Southampton, Coventry etc) just hanging around mid-table, year after year not really winning anything or doing anything very interesting.

At least with this "modern format" (i.e. lots of money via the TV companies) we seem to get 2-3 new teams into the premiership each year, give them some extra potential and the fans some hope.This seems to be opening up opportunities a bit more (and closing down the hangers-on).

Just in case you really do care, even if it's only just a little tiny bit.

Leeds United 5th place English League One.

Is that sort of like the old Third Division?

http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/...=eng.3&cc=5901

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There's been three (exactly three) teams promoted to the Premiership every year. What's that got to do with TV money?

Maybe I'm wrong, or my remembering has gotten a bit twisted, but I recall the "same old names" in the middle of the table, year in, year out (in the old days of "division one"). Which, to be honest, was getting pretty boring. More recently there are teams that have come up into the premiership and displaced those "same old names" (e.g. Portsmouth, Hull, Wigan, Bolton etc) with TV money, good management, and a bit of good-old-fashioned passion..and made that mid-table "we're not going to win anything but at least we're not going down" a bit more interesting, that's all.

It's not a jibe against Newcastle, or against the expectations of any fan of their hometown team, more a case of making the premiership (from positions 7-17) slightly more interesting.

I mean, really, what's interesting about the division right now, well we've got the top 3's potential and what else? There's the soap-opera at Newcastle, the hope that Hull will be plummeting back down to the fiery depths they came from, and that's probably about it, right? For the neutral, all those other teams in the middle really do nothing but trivialize their existence in the top flight.

You must be watching a differnt league to me

There is potential for the title to go to the wire for once (until liverpool blow it anyway)

There is a 3 horse race for the last champions league place for once.

Anyone from about 11th up could yet snatch a place in Europe (although they may not want it )

No one from 12th down is safe from relegation yet.

Its the most open season for years.

In the old days Forrest were great to watch, won things, and had cloughy as manager, Villa challenged for the title, even won it, Spurs were actually a big team, Leeds won the championship and treatened for a while in euripe till the bubble burst. Loads of local rivalries.

Nothing against the small teams, but its not the same as a 40, 50, 60thousand fan atmosphere. Where are the Sheffield clubs, Leeds too? The Midlands are woefully represented, although villa are a bit resurgent this year.

And the reason for this? Money. The big 4 are supported by Champions league revenue that makes it very hard to break the monopoly. The relegated premiership teams get parachute payments which make it relatively easy to rebound to the premiership. The big teams of old missed the boat and have not been able to catch up again...before they had the advantage over the smaller teams of big gates, but that is dwarfed by the TV money...So we all miss out on the atmosphere of huge crouds and fierce local rivalries...The atmosphere and the obvious love of the game up there are why I dont want Newcastle to go down.

Definitely this year is making the difference, and that's really my point, that we don't have those "same old teams" hanging around mid-table any more, now it's a lot more competitive and a bit more interesting.

Sure the only real interesting action is at the top of the table (and Europe), even for the neutral, but at least it's getting better division-wide. Newcastle have the fan base and have always tried to take football there in the right direction (exciting, forward moving, attacking style) and it would be a real shame for them to go down, but I'm sure they'd be straight back up next year. If the same happened to Tottenham though, I doubt any one would care anywhere near as much (apart from the locals).

Pax vobiscum Iain.

Liverpool deserve to win it all this year. But Newcastle .... not so much.

It is the old 3rd Division.

Not to be confused with Division 2

In terms of the toon army I must say regardless of their new manager their own fate is down to the teams that play them from memory they definately have the toughest run in.

In terms of the top end of the table perhaps I can see Liverpools 1st League victory since being a fan I must admit I predicted this at the start of the season and the saving grace we can be offered is really down to Arsenal/Aston Villa. I don't see any other teams really troubling MU.

The league this year has been the best league since '01 IMHO.

Quite incorrect there, although Liverpool did manage to sustain a level unprecedented in the 90's.

Who remembers the days of competition? When teams like Burnley, Forest, Derby, Everton, Ipswich etc, if they had the right motivational manager could mount an attack on the First Division title? Gone are those days.

Each year a team would that had challenged would flounder whilst another smaller team (Southampton perhaps, or Coventry or even my team Swansea once) come to the front.

Now we see Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool year in and year out. Aston Villa are the first team for years to issue a challenge, due only to Martin O'Neill and a little money.

The competition began to degenerate when the home internationals were scrapped because they didn't make money for England, they kept the Scotland game going for a short while as that was a money spinner at the time (well at least until the jocks took Wembley home).

That was the first 'money' inspired decision.

Following that came Manchester United's crusade to keep all the 'home' gate money. They argued why should we share our bigger gate when the other teams don't have as big crowds. The answer of course was because for 50% of the season they had the additional cash their crowd deserved, whilst others managed to get that for only 1 game! Manchester United still got more money!

Well, they got their way and the rules were changed, home teams now kept all of the home gates.

Were Manchester United happy with that, well, the answer is no, next came the TV money... 'we're on the TV (1st division teams) why should the other 70 teams receive anything'?

The Football League held firm on that one, but when Sky came along with a bigger pot, were they happy that their revenue was going to rise as the pot was bigger, the answer is NO.

So the big teams did not want just more revenue, they didn't want a bigger share of the pot, they wanted the pot!!!

So the EPL was formed and the 'big' teams left the Football League for their own competition. the big teams agreed to promotion and relegation back in and out of the Football League, because they decided they would never be relegated.

Next came Europe and the ironic renaming of a European competition, which was open to only the Champions of the European leagues. renamed from the European Cup (which was a simple knock out competition) to the Champions League (a competition with tables guaranteeing more games and of course more money). Of course some European countries don't deserve to be in this competition and must play off to get in, whilst others are far more deserving and get 2 automatic places and further 2 to be played for.

Again Sky was used as the money battering ram for this.

So these teams at the top are now self perpetuating, raking in about 80% of available money between a few top European clubs.

The players are paid fortunes, which means the money is draining out of football via so few.

The top teams are buying players, not because they need them, just to ensure they don't play against them..

Like all fans of smaller clubs, I'm hoping for Swansea to get into the EPL, but somehow the competition is not as it was, well it is not a competition any more as the medium teams bankrupt themselves just to maintain a spot in the limelight or in an attempt to get there, usually for 1 short season.

Excellent post Peter.